He’s been shooting firearms since the early age of 10 and competed with pistols since the age of 18. He served as an officer in the British Army before moving to the United States. He placed second in the Trooper class at the 2009 MGM Iron Man 3-Gun competition, but you probably know him best from his appearance on the History Channel’s newest reality TV show “Top Sot”.
Following his incredible win Sunday, we gave Iain Harrison a call to talk about his background with firearms, his immigration to the United States, as well as his experience on Top Shot.
Congratulations on your win. Have you made any decision as to what you will do with the $100,000? Pay the taxes on it. {laughs}
Ah, yes there is that. Uncle Sam always gets his share. Let’s start by talking about your background. You grew up in the United Kingdom? That’s correct, yeah. I moved here to the United States about 12 years ago.
Firearms are heavily restricted in the United Kingdom. Did you have any exposure to firearms prior to joining the military? Yeah, I started out shooting around age 10 when, like so many other people, someone hands you a .22 caliber rifle and you go “Hey! This is fantastic!” Then I got a shotgun around age 14 and air rifles and that sort of thing. I got pistols when I was legally able to at 18 and then started shooting a bunch of IPSC.
Tell us a bit about that, at 18 you were still in the United Kingdom? Yeah.
At that time you were still legally able to own a pistol back then? That’s correct.
Were your parents involved in the shooting sports? No, not at all. It was something I did entirely on my own.
Explain for those of us who grew up in the United States and are unfamiliar with the restrictions placed on firearms in the United Kingdom. What’s the process you had to go through to get a shotgun or a pistol back then? At the time, obviously I’ve been out of the loop for a while so I can’t comment on the current situation, what you had to do was fill out a bunch of forms. The police would then come and interview you and inspect your security arrangements. You had to had have a safe bolted to the wall. Then you would specify exactly what firearm category that you wanted, you could have one .357 Revolver or one .45 ACP handgun, and how much ammunition you could to get for it as well. It’s fairly restrictive in that case.
In order to get anything like what we call a Section 1 firearm, which is a centerfire, you needed to prove good cause which generally entailed having property on which to shoot it or, if you weren’t one of the landed gentry, being a member of a firearms club.
Did you join a firearms club to get a pistol? Yeah, I did.
Was that when you started shooting IPSC? Yeah.
And this must have been before you joined the military then. It was, yeah.
What prompted you to get started with IPSC? Firearm ownership and consequently the shooting sports aren’t very common in the United Kingdom. How did you first find out about action pistol shooting? Let’s see… I’d been shooting clay sports for a while. Then I just decided I wanted to take the next step and do something a bit more difficult. Not that I’m knocking anybody who shoots clay sports, but I think that pistols are much more difficult to master. I figured it was something with a very short sight radius and something that you couldn’t brace against your body, and that it would be the next step up.
So, I did that, decided I was going to shoot handguns and then figured that the new sport of IPSC coming along seemed to have a lot of challenging variety to it. I thought that if I was going to shoot pistols that was what I wanted to do.
Let’s move on to your military experience I was an infantry officer commissioned in 1990. I spent about 8 years serving in that capacity. I started out as Armored Infantry and then did a spell as dismounted Close Recon. Then I did a bunch of other jobs like Second in Command of the Company and Operations.
Now, you’ve got a background in the shooting sports and you’ve served in the British military. Why make the decision to immigrate to the US? I was getting toward the end of the time I wanted to spend in the Army. I wanted to leave for good reasons, you see so many people who are staying on for their pension and become bitter and twisted and disenchanted with the whole situation. I didn’t want to do that, and I didn’t want to be flying a desk either. That was kind of the stage of my career that I was in.
Then the British government decided that the 20,000 of us who actually shot pistols in the country legally were good targets to prove how tough they were on crime. That was kind of the kicker for me.
You actually decided to immigrate based off of the government’s decision to ban handgun ownership? It was one of the reasons. It was certainly a factor.
Did you move straight away to Oregon? No, I moved to New York, and actually didn’t shoot pistols until I moved to Oregon two years ago.
That was quite a lapse in your participation in the shooting sports. Yeah. I shot sporting clays for a bit in New York and started getting into practical rifle competitions toward the end of my stay there. The biggest kicker for me to get back into the shooting sports competitively was moving to Oregon.
What shooting sports are you involved in? You mentioned practical rifle, are you shooting 3-gun or Multigun? Yup. Sure am. Pretty much anything with a trigger, I’ll pull it.
We definitely saw that by your performance on Top Shot, you really had the ability to pick up just about anything and do well with it. Moving on to talk about the show, they put out an open casting call near the beginning of this year. How did you find out about the show and why did you apply? My wife kinda steered me towards it really. I didn’t take the whole thing very seriously at all. I sent in my application kinda tongue in cheek. I got a call the next day. they wanted to see me on video, so I sent in a video and I think I put my casting video together when I was horrendously hung over. I’d been celebrating the day before after moving a client into their house.
I think pretty much every thing you shouldn’t do to get on the show, I did.
Were you shocked that they wanted to have you on the show? I was a little surprised, given the caliber, pun intended, of the people I saw at the casting in LA. There were 50 people down there and I wasn’t even a blip on anybody’s radar. There were some really big names in the shooting community down there, I’m sure you got that information from the other guys you’ve spoken to so far.
Yes, we’ve talked to a lot of them. I know J.J. Racaza and Blake Miguez were somewhat intimidating factors for everybody. When you showed up what were your thoughts when you found yourself surrounded by so many big names? My thoughts were “Great! Let’s go the bar, let’s swap war stories.”
One thing everyone I’ve spoken to about the show mentions is how many good strong friendships were formed. I think part of it was that everyone going into the show was conscious of the fact that this was a first. I don’t know whether it was subconscious or overt, but I think that everybody really wanted to show the shooting sports in a positive light and show that we’re not a bunch of crimson naped rednecks. We’re passionate about what we do, and it takes a lot of discipline to do what we do.
We just wanted to dispel some stereotypes. With that group mentality you kinda define yourself as this small clique of guys who are passionate about what we do and are surrounded by people who don’t know what we do. It really was a sort of “getting to know you” experience, both from our standpoint with what goes on in any reality TV show, and then [from the view of the media] “OK, these bunch of shooters, are they just potential mass murderers?”
Did the producers make a conscious effort to portray the shooting sports in a positive light? Yes, I think they did. I think that once they found out that we are who we are, I think they did an absolutely stellar job of casting the first series. From the reality TV standpoint you have to get conflicting personalities in there, but it wasn’t overboard when you compare it to some of the other reality TV shows.
I think yeah they did. Then when they saw that we really did know what we were talking about, they gave us a bit more free reign.
We did eventually see some of those personalities clash with Kelly and then later with Blake and Adam. Did you have a plan going into the show for how you would handle the social aspect of the show? Yeah, I did. I went into it with a little demon sitting on my shoulder saying “How is this going to play out on national TV to your friends?” Everything that I did, I had that little fellow on my shoulder.
It’s a 42 minute spot that they have to fill and they have about 300 hours of footage going into it. With 42 minutes and 16 people, you’re not going to get very much character development there. Your character is defined fairly early on, and that’s what you’ve got to stick with. If you give them the material to define you as somebody you don’t necessarily want to be defined as, it doesn’t matter. That’s how you’re going to be seen.
By the same token, if you don’t say it, they can’t show it. You’re kinda looking at peoples character through a magnifying glass. That prism that they use to show people’s character is very very intense. You know, if you meet any of these guys for a working day, where you’re only spending 8 hours with them rather than 24 hours with them, then everybody comes off as a stellar guy and someone you want to go have a beer with. If you spend 24/7 for 33 days you’re going to pick up on people’s character traits that you might otherwise overlook.
Again, it’s interesting to note that despite the overexposure you had to each other, there were still deep long lasting friendships formed Absolutely. Pretty much all of the cast is in daily communication with each other. We’re actually planning a reunion right now.
We didn’t see you get voted into any elimination challenges. Would you say that was because of your success navigating the social aspect of the competition? No, because Blue Team kept winning. When we did lose, such as with Adam and Caleb, the pair was self selecting to a great extent. Then the only other time was when I shot against Jim.
Was there any point where you kinda relaxed and forgot the cameras were there? To some extent. The biggest thing for me to get adjusted to was that there was a camera and sound crew there recording your every move. You’re mic’d 24/7, so that even if you’re off camera and you’re not being followed by the guys with the big cameras on their shoulders, you’re still on surveillance camera and everything you say is recorded. When the guys with the big cameras fade into the background you can let things slip that you might otherwise not.
Concerning the actual competitions, a few of the competitors commented on the quality of the equipment that was provided. You know, it was a learning experience for everybody. It was our first time out, and I think that some mistakes were made regarding the quality of the equipment I think. having said that, shooting iron sighted rifles with 4-8 pound triggers on them really puts people outside of their comfort zone if they’re used to shooting an AR-15 with an ACOG and a side mounted red dot and a 1-1/2 pound trigger. It really concentrates the mind and gets you back to the fundamentals of marksmanship, getting those sights aligned and making the trigger squeeze. In that aspect, shooting guns that weren’t race prepared was a real leveler.
Peter mentioned how his background in the military gave him the ability to adapt to whatever equipment was issued, no matter the quality or how familiar it was. Did you experience the same thing? Yeah, it did. Also, because I’m a cheap bastard.
I’ve got a few ARs, I don’t have a Beretta. I’ve got an HK variant, but I don’t have an HK-93. Come to think of it, I don’t own really anything that we shot.
Coming down to the individual eliminations when we saw the teams go away, did that change catch anybody by surprise? It was shocking that it happened so late. We were thinking “OK, we’ve got a week left on the schedule, when’s it going to happen?” When it came down to the final 8, well it would have been final 8 were it not for Tara having to leave, we were like “OK, let’s do it. This is what we’re here for.”
Going into the initial competition, the pistol shot on the burning fuse. What was your strategy for that challenge? I was up first and I though that I would want to shoot as long a fuse as I could to set the bar high for anybody else following me and make sure that somebody crashes and burns behind me.
That was the wrong strategy because the fuse burned a lot faster than I anticipated. So I was playing catchup during the first round.
Later we saw a different strategy emerge in the second round as J.J. and other shooters tried to shoot a tight group at nearly the base of the fuse in an attempt to sever the burning cord. Yeah, J.J. and I both did that. That was definitely the safe way to play it and in the end it worked out to our advantage.
Kelly had the dubious distinction of going first in the next challenge, the hill climb. After seeing his performance, how did you adapt your plan for conquering the course? I think any of the guys who had been shooting 3-Gun or IPSC decided it was time to go balls to the wall and just load one single load in each firearm on the platform. The targets were fairly large, and the fact that Kelly managed to shoot the first target with a pistol with no problems, so I thought “Well, screw it. Let’s just single load and try to smoke the time on it.”
I think it came down to confidence in your abilities. It had the potential of going south, that strategy. A miss and then a reload is going to completely blow your time. I think having the confidence to do it was key to it.
How important was that confidence, that mindset, when you know you have to hit each shot the first time with just one shot or you’re going to be sent home? I approached from the standpoint of “I know I can do this.” If you know you can do it then you’re only shooting your own match, you don’t worry about any body else’s performance. You just go out and do the best you can. I think if you start looking around and looking over your shoulder people are going to catch up with you. It puts too much mental pressure on you and you just crash and burn.
Next of course you had the dueling pistol trees where you went heads up against your rivals. Yeah, and what fun that was. I mean, J.J. put on a stellar performance. It was just an exhibition match for him.
Were you relieved not to have to go up against J.J.? I was, but if I had gone up against J.J. and lost, I would have gone up against Pete for the elimination, and I knew I could beat Pete with a pistol. Ultimately I don’t think the outcome of that one would have changed much.
Moving on we got to see a new style of challenge where each competitor got to choose a shot, kind of like the basketball game of Horse. Why did you choose to shoot shot glasses at 50 feet? I chose that shot because during the trick shooting episode I got to see everybody shoot a DA revolver. I was quite surprised by the fact that I was able to pick up a DA revolver and shoot it pretty well. You know, I hadn’t shot a revolver since leaving the UK.
It was a really really nice Smith, I would say it came in around 12 pounds double action, but really really smooth and before it tripped you could feel it stage. I used to shoot a fair amount of revolver in the UK, so I guess that muscle memory just carried over. That allowed me to see everyone else’s groups as to what they could shoot comfortably with that revolver. I figured if I pick a DA revolver shot and Chris makes it that means that Chris comes into the final with me and I don’t have to shoot against J.J. Racaza.
How shocked were you when J.J. missed his own 50 yard pistol shot? I was, was really surprised to see him because that was a single action trigger on that Scofield and I knew he had sight dope at that 50 yard distance.
And yet, everyone seemed to hit high on that shot. Even your shot hit the very top of the glass. Yeah it was definitely in the top third. I don’t know what happened. When we shot that gun previously at that distance the round was dropping like a rock. Maybe it was just a sight alignment thing, maybe I just didn’t get it right, but nobody else did either.
At the final elimination, you had to have an inkling that you might actually walk away with the $100,000 grand prize. Actually, walking into the last challenge winning it really wasn’t at the forefront of my mind. I know that sounds stupid, but we got to the end of this whole bizarre process and I’m walking up to the final challenge with Chris who is an absolutely stellar stand up guy, real salt of the earth, and I knew if I went out I couldn’t have lost to a better guy. Once you’ve got that kind of mindset, the pressure’s off. We just went out there to show them what we could do and we put on a good show for the 2.6 million people who ended up watching it and had a good time.
There were certain things you could strategize going into it as to how you make up a couple of tenths of a second here or there, like reloading that Winchester 73. I hadn’t done that as part of any of the other challenges, but just figured I’d get it as close to the source of the ammunition as I could get and then slam the gun against the box of ammo.
I think the win was pretty much incidental at that time. We walked into that challenge and saw all the guys sitting on the benches, it was a kind of mini-reunion. Then we just got to show off what we could do.
Well, you did well in that final challenge and took home the $100,000 dollars. I’m curious though, what else did you take away from the experience? The biggest thing I took away from the show was the friendships we established. I held a viewing party here locally for most of the episodes. For the finale episode we packed out the bar with a bunch of local shooters and friends and I talked to Caleb who had moved down to Seattle and he came down for the finale party. That sneaky bastard set it up so that Tara flew in 2,000 miles from Chicago.
You don’t see that from any other reality TV show. It gets back to the personalities of shooters. It was a great bunch of guys going into the show and I don’t think you’ll see that from any other TV situation.
How has being on the show changed your life? Obviously you’ve got a little less worries financially, but others have made significant changes to their life after the show: Caleb has moved to Seattle, Peter is considering a move to Louisiana near Blake Miguez, and Denny has appeared in some television commercials. What has changed for you? I don’t think it’s changed me a whole lot. You know, it’s not a great time to be in the construction industry right now, and we’ll just leave it at that. The only thing that’s really changed for me you know is I was standing in the airport yesterday morning at 4:30, standing in line, and somebody recognized me. They kind of nudged each other and said “Hey, there’s that Top Shot guy” and that has been the biggest change for me so far.
What do you think the success of the show holds for the future? Both the History Channel and Pilgrim both deserve a lot of Kudos for having the balls to do this, a reality TV show with live ammunition. Now that the franchise has been proven, I think it’s got legs. We’re going into season 2 now and I think if we continue to build on the success of it it’s nothing but good for the shooting sports.
Thanks for taking the time to talk to us and congratulations once again on your win. Thanks, it’s been a pleasure speaking with you too.
Iain lives in Oregon with his wife where he works as a construction manager. He continues to participate in practical rifle and 3-gun competitions as both a shooter and a range officer.
Peter Palma was easily one of the biggest characters on Top Shot. Between his quirky personality, his colorful clip on ties, and his outrageous clothes, he certainly stood out among the other competitors. But when it came to shooting, Peter let his talent do the talking.
We managed to sneak in an interview with Peter who was training at the US Marine Corps Base Quantico just before he was sitting down to eat. It’s pretty dangerous to get between a Marine and his next meal, but we took the risk and briefly talked to Peter about his background with firearms and his experience on Top Shot. Here’s what he had to say.
Let’s talk about how you first got introduced to firearms. Actually, I was always interested in firearms but I never had anybody who would support me in that. My father didn’t like guns. The first gun I actually shot was when my buddy’s dad took me hunting when I was 12, and I only shot one round. I still have the shell casing, it was a 20 gauge shotgun.
Then I didn’t really fire any firearms until I turned 18 and I bought my first Ruger 10/22. That was the first rifle I ever bought, and the first real gun I’d ever shot more than one round. So, I learned [to shoot] that way, kinda figured it out my own way.
You’d just go out to the range and shoot a little bit and found that you had a knack for shooting rifles? Yeah, I had BB guns and stuff as a kid, but never any real firearms. I’d always hit generally what I was aiming at with the rifle, but I never had any formal training. Nobody ever really taught me anything. I just aimed and worked it out myself. It wasn’t until I started buying a lot of guns and some people would try and help me. I had friends here and there, some of which were police or law enforcement, and they would give me a little bit [of help] here and there.
It wasn’t until I joined the Marines that I really honed my skills. I was actually taught professionally how to shoot. I was already a pretty good shot, and then they showed me the fundamentals, and from there the rest is history.
You still had those fundamentals going into the Marines, you had some time behind the trigger already. Yes, I joined the Marines when I was 24 years old, so by that point I’d already owned firearms for about six years on my own.
You were a bit older than most when you joined the Marines. How did that work out for you? We call it an existential crises. Most people would join the Marines when they’re young and impressionable, or when they’re older and something happens: they get dumped by a girl, or whatever it is and they run to the recruiter to change their life and shoot for the stars. Make something out of themselves. Most of the time it doesn’t workout like that, they suddenly realize “Oh my God, what have I done…” That’s kind of how I felt.
There is obviously a lot of stuff people don’t like about the military, like having to run around and get up super early with people yelling at you. But you also get to shoot all kinds of firearms, some of which I didn’t even know existed until I joined the Marines. So, that’s the plus side. I also met the best people I’ve ever met. Some of my best friends ever are Marines. You don’t really make those connections with normal people. You only make those connections with people you’ve served with. It balances out.
What was your motivation to join the Marines? Did you join just so you could play with the big guns? I kinda always wanted to join the Marines, to shoot all the guns and do all the stuff that Marines do and be hard core. That’s really why you join the Marines. You always have stuff going on though. You think about the fact that it’s 6 years and I’ll be 30 now when I’m getting out. I signed a 6 year contract and, when you’re 24, 6 years seems like a million years but it goes by lightning fast. Sometimes.
I joined to shoot guns and get formal training, and to serve my country. They offered my $10,000 to go motor transport or be a combat correspondent, and I turned it down. I wanted to be a machine gunner. I turned down ten grand just to do that. I wanted to be infantry, I wanted to shoot guns. If there were no guns there, I wouldn’t have joined.
How difficult was it as a Marine for you to get the time off to go be on Top Shot? I’m a reservist, so I only have to go one weekend a month and two weeks a year. Unless they activate you. I signed up for one weekend a month and two weeks a year, but they activated me for two years. The first tour of Iraq was a year, and then I went to sniper school for three months. Then I did a second tour which was a whole ‘nother year. I just had to miss two weekends and my command approved.
Even though I’m down here [for my two weeks a year] right now, they still let me sneak off and find a cable television and watch [the episodes] with some of my guys.
What was your motivation to go apply to Top Shot? Somebody sent me a casting call, and the casting call said that they are looking for people with big personalities that have mind blowing shooting skills and who want to win $100,000. Obviously I wanted to win $100,000. I shoot really well, I mean I’m a Marine sniper and machine gunner, and I’m a firearms enthusiast as well so I have a bunch of my own firearms that I enjoy shooting because I’m good at it. If I was bad at it I’d probably like something else. I also have a pretty big personality, I’m a roller derby mascot and I dress a little crazy. I’m quite and individual, I like to go against the grain.
…roller derby mascot? Yes. I kinda fell into that. I wear many hats. I kinda like getting in a little trouble in the Marines every now and then, because I do some crazy stuff. Nothing too big, just something where most people are shaking their head at me and smiling.
I don’t know if you watched my audition tape, but there are a couple of times where I’m doing some crazy stuff in Iraq like throwing grenades to fish and spraying silly string on some kids, ran around in my underwear, you know. I got screamed at for all this stuff, but they just scream at you. It’s not like I’m out doing drugs or getting in fights or anything like that where you’d get in real trouble. I just did some stuff where you’d get yelled at.
Top Shot must have just been another way for you to go out, be crazy, and have some fun then, right? Yeah, I mean they wanted big personalities. It doesn’t get too much bigger than mine. Then there was the chance to shoot all kinds of guns, that seemed awesome, and who doesn’t want to be on television?
Tell me about your plan leading up to the show. Obviously you knew you were going to be firing a bunch of different weapons, but you didn’t know quite what the show was going to be like. Did you do any practice or additional training to try to familiarize yourself with strange or unusual weaponry? The only thing they said in the casting call that they would be doing was the Annie Oakley shot, which seemed pretty easy as long as you’ve got good sight alignment. I went in my bathroom and I tried doing that, but other than that I had no idea what was going to happen so I didn’t practice throwing knives, I didn’t use a slingshot.
I do have a bow, but it’s a compound bow and I did shoot that a little bit, but not at 100 yards. We were shooting a bow without sights and it’s not that strong like a compound bow is. I didn’t practice for anything really, other than what I already knew. I’ve shot pistols here and there. It’s not my forte but I can do it. Then my obviously rifle skills are up there as a sniper.
I didn’t really practice that much because it was impossible to know what there was [on the show]. I did go to the range here and there, I went skeet shooting once just because I’d never done it before. I assumed something like that would be on there, but that was the extent of my practice. I just shot skeet and took by bow out once.
A lot of [the show] was about adapting, which you learn as a Marine, and getting crappier stuff. One of the things on the show is that you’ll see a lot of the competition guys are used to getting top notch, expensive, tricked out equipment, but when you hand them a hundred year old rifle they would hate everything about the rifle. To me if they hand me a gun, that’s the gun they issue me and I can’t do anything about it. I can’t do a trigger job or mess with the gun. I just have to deal with what they give me and make the best of it. I think that helped me there; my being able to roll with the punches.
While Brad and some of the other contestants were complaining about how some of the firearms were less than ideal, you were just going with it? Yeah, you just pick up a gun and that’s the way it is. I own a lot of the firearms you saw, or at least ones very similar to them. I’d shot the M16 before. It’s like an extension of my own body, I’m very at home with that rifle. The Beretta 92 we shoot in the Marines. I have a Peacemaker of my own. I have Mosin Nagants and I’ve shot M14s, so a lot of the modern guns on the show I’d fired already. I didn’t have to familiarize myself with them. I was already used to them. Having my own collection really helped me out there.
In the Marines, you have your own rifle, but sometimes you have to roll with the punches. For example I have an M16 with an M203 [grenade launcher] on it and I go to shoot at the rifle range, obviously I’m not going to be able to take the M16 with the M203, I’ll have to borrow one from the armory or use my buddy’s rifle. Even in sniper schools if your rifle has a problem on the range you can’t just stop for the day. The world doesn’t stop, it keeps rolling. You may have never shot your spotter’s rifle before, but you’re going to be shooting it now. And it’s for score. You just have to roll with it. I think these experiences really helped me.
How did your other teammates complaints about the equipment you used on the show affect your perception of them? You didn’t catch a lot of it on camera, but nearly everybody had the same complaints. It kind of put me off. If it weren’t for Blake and J.J., I would be totally put off by the other competitors because all they were doing was whining. They had to even more so prove themselves to me.
You’ll see that Brad turned around. He stopped whining and he really started putting out as far as performance goes. He’s one of my better friends now. He met me in Louisiana and we hung out with Blake and had a great time. There were no hard feelings there, but he definitely had to prove himself to everybody. He had some thick skin and he did show that he is a competitor.
Did you go into the show with any strategies for how to deal with the drama aspects of the show? We saw a number of competitors literally talk themselves into elimination challenges and eventually off the show. What was your plan for dealing with this? When I went into the show I learned something: The less you say, the better. Unless it was pressing, I would just keep my mouth shut and see how everything played out. Some people would actually say “I’m going to vote for you,” but I just tried to sit there. I wasn’t really comfortable with that.
You’ll see Frank say in one episode “I’m going to vote for you, Bill,” but he ended up voting for Brad and Bill voted for Frank as a way to get back at him. Frank actually sent himself to that elimination challenge by saying who he was going to vote for. I learned very quick after that not to say anything.
When we got there we could see who the teams were. I don’t know if they stacked them against us, but J.J. and Blake were huge competitors for the Blue Team. As I started talking to people, I could see that the Blue Team really had some skill there. The Red Team sat down the first time to discuss who was good at what so that we could kinda plan out the game. I noticed I was one of the more well rounded people on my team. I knew it was going to be a battle and that we would get hosed a lot.
As things were going on however, I ended up consistently coming out on top, so I didn’t need to worry about the drama so much. I knew no one was going to vote for me. Most of the time I did better than them. Sometimes they did better than me; Kelly for example was really good. I never voted for him and he never voted for me.
I talked to Kelly later and he kinda shot himself in the foot because he wanted people to underestimate him. He’s actually won some pistol competitions and archery competitions before, but he never mentioned that to any of use. People thought that we was just a one trick pony, and I think that’s one reason why they kept voting for him. I noticed, especially in that first pistol challenge, that he did very well with it. He shot even better than Brad who was supposed to be our pistol guy. I was left wondering, and even said “What else does this guy have up his sleeve?” I think if he had at least spoke about his skill a bit more he wouldn’t have been voted into so many elimination challenges.
I guess my thing was that if you shoot well enough, you don’t need to play the game as much. They’re not going to put you into an elimination challenge because you’re strong for the team, and because it could be them who has to go up against you in the elimination. Nobody wants to piss off a guy who can shoot better than they can. If you perform well, that’s less drama that you have to worry about.
You say that, and I’ve talked to Brad about this as well, but we’ve seen some challenges where it seemed that some team members like Denny didn’t really rise to the occasion while other performances like Kelly’s really outshone others. Every one seemed genuinely shocked that Denny didn’t get sent to those elimination challenges, even to the point that the Blue Team commented on the situation. What was your logic in not voting for Denny? Denny did very well in all of the challenges going up to that one point. Watching the show with the editing it makes it seem like he did far worse than he really did. He did really bad, don’t get me wrong, but they focused on how bad he did. Which is true, but while every one was talking about how Kelly did so great, he did equally as bad. He only went up once, but I watched him drop 5 rounds and miss, and hit nothing.
The reason I didn’t vote for Denny was that was the first time he had really faltered in a challenge. I thought he was much more well rounded. Three team members really ate it in that challenge: Denny, Kelly, and Andre. I don’t know why the rest of my team voted for Kelly. I voted for Andre, but Denny and everyone else voted for Kelly.
I can’t speak for the rest of my team, but it also baffles me why they voted for Kelly in the trick shot challenge. I don’t understand that. He kept performing, so I never thought to vote for Kelly, even though he was my biggest threat. On my team, I was the most afraid of Kelly. Any given day, and he agrees, he could beat me in long distance rifle shooting or I could beat him. It just depends on the day, a flip of the coin. We both think we’re equally skilled in that. I think if Kelly had played himself up a little bit more, he wouldn’t have been picked for elimination as often, but that’s my only guess. I have no idea why they ever voted for Kelly.
One thing I’ve noticed, having talked to many of the participants of the show, is how many strong friendships were formed by everyone on the show… Absolutely. Blake and I got along so well, after this annual training I’m trying to find my way down there, find some employment and a place to live. I’m trying to move to Louisiana. I had such a great time with him, we hit it off so well on the show, Blake was by far my favorite, and J.J. was right up there.
It was very similar to what you find in the Marines, except that you’re in a mansion and you get free food. You have nothing to do. There were no books to read. We were not allowed to have books, radio, no electronics, no television, no telephones, no computer, nothing. So you’re in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do. In the Marines you may be sitting on the tarmac waiting with a bunch of your guys for two days, waiting for an airplane to come. We all shared a common interest and there’s nothing else to do except talk to the guy next to you, or stare into space.
Obviously then you’re going to start up conversations. We’re all characters, in the casting process, it’s a science how they choose us. Add in that we all shared a common interest in firearms, we all like to shoot. It’s the perfect recipe for forming long lasting friendships. It’s the same thing in the Marine Corps. You’re going to meet people that you will know forever. Plus, when the show comes out, you cannot confide in anybody else because of the non-disclosure agreement. It’s also a shared experience. I called J.J. up to talk to him about something on the show, but I can’t talk to anyone else about that. It’s the same thing in the Marines.
One thing everyone has been dying to know: what is up with the clip-on tie and your crazy outfits at the end of the show? The tie is just something you can use on a normal shirt, it’s something you can do that’s so little and it just sets off the outfit. You can be wearing just regular clothes and you throw on a clip on tie and “BAM!” and it goes from being just a shirt somebody has on to something crazy.
I just like to dress funny. I’m not going to lie, I like attention. I like to mix things up a little bit. I like to stand out and do whatever it takes. How do I say this without sounding a little crazy… I don’t like dressing like a normal person. I like to have a bit of pizazz. People will go out and want to dress up nice, but if I go out and I’m not dressed in something a bit crazy I feel the same as people who can’t go out without makeup. That’s kinda how I feel. If I’m dressed like a normal person, I can’t go out and have a good time.
Some people might say you’ve just been in uniform in the Marines too long… I think that’s part of it. When you’re in uniform, you have to look like everybody else, and I’m just dying inside to show myself as an individual. There’s no place for that in the Marines, but I’ve always been like that, even as a small child.
Talk to me about the end. We saw the teams dissolve and the competition came down to individual challenges… I never thought I’d make it that far, so the fact that I made it that far, I didn’t mind getting eliminated. Especially with the gun and those guys. I’m pretty proud that I was able to stand with some of the best shooters I’d ever seen and last so long.
Thanks for taking the time to talk to us about yourself and your experience on Top Shot. Awesome. Thank you so much, I’m gonna go eat some chow now.
After his stunning elimination from the History Channel’s new reality show “Top Shot” we managed to track down Blake Miguez to talk a bit about his background in the shooting sports and his appearance on Top Shot. To say that Blake is a busy guy would be an understatement: in addition to competing regularly across the nation and around the world, Blake works as a corporate attorney and helps to run his father’s businesses. Still, he managed to find time to talk to us over the phone about his experience.
Cheaper Than Dirt: Tell us about how you got started shooting. Did you grow up around firearms? Blake: Yeah. I’ve been shooting since I was a kid and my dad used to bring me out to the local shooting range, just recreational shooting, not competition shooting. I remember the gun I shot the most when I was young was a Smith & Wesson Model 41, which is a .22 semiautomatic pistol. He and my uncle had a store called “Howard Brothers” going out of business in town and they’d bought up all the .22 ammunition they had left in stock, which was a quarter million rounds, and they split it down the middle. By the time I was a teenager we only had eighteen thousand rounds left, so I probably fired over a hundred thousand rounds as a kid with a .22. That was just shooting at sticks and shootin at bottles I’d like to throw in the water, or just homemade targets like plates, anything I could shoot. I wasn’t in competition at that point until I turned about twelve and a half.
Cheaper Than Dirt: Wow, that’s really young to get started in competition for a lot of people. Blake: Yeah, I started USPSA/IPSC shooting when I was twelve, right before my thirteenth birthday. I started with a Beretta 92F similar to what was in the TV show, but mine had a compensator on it and it had the double action removed. It was a single action. It was the gun my dad had kinda configured as a starter gun.
I see… Then after that I started shooting, about a year into it, he passed on an STI Open gun and I shot that until I was probably twenty or twenty one, and I switched to the Limited category in .40 and I’ve been shooting that for probably ten years or so.
Did your father already compete in USPSA and get you started? One day he went to a range in Baton Rouge, which is about an hour away from us, to buy some reloading equipment and a Lee Press and some single stage loading equipment. When he walked in he heard some rapid gunfire going off at the indoor range. It was an indoor range/bullet manufacturer. He went to find out what was going on and he met some guys that let him use their gun. It was a Wednesday night practice match that he still competes in today, he goes every Wednesday. He’s been doing that for the last fifteen or twenty years. That’s how he got into it. He shot it for about a year and then he got his twelve year old son, me, into it. He passed on his gun and got him an Open gun and then passed that one down to me and that’s how we got going.
I got really good at it. I made Grand Master at age 17-
Wow- I think I won the Louisiana State match at age 17 and shortly after I think I won Area 4. I’ve been in the top 16 at the Nationals for ten plus years. I’m ranked second in the world right now in IPSC shooting in the Standard Division. I’ve been doing pretty good. I’ve been shooting all my life. I’m a really quick shooter.
What does a regular week of training look like for you? Well, I’m kind of different from all the other guys out there. I’m not sure how much you know about my background, but a lot of the guys I compete with on a Grand Master level, they’re all professional shooters, and shooting is basically a hobby for me. On the show I call it semi-professional shooting because I went to college after high school and I went to law school and now I’m an attorney and also run my father’s two oil field service companies. So I stay busy in my real life with my career and everything.
Shooting-wise, practice and training haven’t been up to par with many other people. I’ve had a year when I shot a whole lot, I took a semester off from college one year when I was about twenty or twenty one and I shot really hard that year and hung out with people like Matt Burkett who helped me do some training. He was also one of the experts on the show which was quite a coincidence. That year I fired forty thousand rounds, but I’ve had other years like when I started law school, and that was three years long, where I’ve only fired a few thousand rounds. But I’ve always managed to compete in the big tournaments, whether it was my Area match, the State Match, or Nationals. Even without a lot of practice I’ve got a lot of natural talent and speed, but just the major match experience that I’ve had for the last sixteen years definitely helps.
I wish I could practice more, but I’ve got a lot of things going on in my real life. What it boils down to is when a match comes up two weeks out I’ll do a few practice sessions and then show up at the match and do the best I can.
You don’t go home every night and do some dry fire practice or anything like that? No, I’ve never dry fired. I should. Recently I tried doing it, I did it for a week or two straight. That was good for me. I’m just starting incorporating all that into my program now that I’m done with school. At least I always say I am. but I never was one of the guys that went and dry fired or any of that stuff. I’ve just always had a knack for shooting. I’ve been shooting so long I’m just good at it.
I never fired Airsoft. When I was a kid it was .22s, .357 revolvers, .38 Special, and a few .44 Magnum but my dad tried to keep me away from the large calibers. I grew up shooting, dove hunting, and duck hunting, so I have some shotgun experience. I’m pretty good with sporting clays, just being a hunter. Then I got into pistol shooting heavy so I could shoot 9mm and .40 pretty well. I practice what I could, but like I said I have a solid resume and a career in my every day life that doesn’t involve shooting, which kinda keeps me off of the practice range.
Now that I’m getting settled down over here back in my home town, because I lived away from my home town for almost ten years being in college and law school, my dad has his own range and I’m going to try to get back into training once things get settled down in my career and the house is completely renovated. I’ve got a project with that. I’m going to try and train more, but I’m still attending the matches and I’m still trying to train as hard as I can but with real life it’s hard to get the time to do that stuff.
Moving on to Top Shot, let’s talk about the show for a little bit. What was your motivation, what were your reasons for applying to be on the show? It’s kinda a funny story. Reality shows, Top Shot, and TV in general were really the last thing on my mind back in January of this year. I was on my way back in from work which is always a hectic day because I’m in the process of picking up my father’s corporation so I’m doing a lot of learning. I’m pretty much involved in the business 24/7.
My mother called me one day and she’d saw that they had an ad on the USPSA they had put an advertisement for a new reality show. It sounded like me when she described it to me, they were looking for someone who was young, over the age of 21, good physical abilty, had a good personality that looked good on TV and had mastered a firearm. That was the perfect description of me. She told me that, and told me it was the History Channel so I knew with them it would be legit.
I thought about it and I think the midnight before the deadline I made a video from my iPhone, didn’t do anything special. I talked to one of the guys on the phone and and asked what kind of video they wanted and they said “Just be yourself” so what I did was I came off the practice range, straight off the practice range, took my hat off, sat down in a chair, had someone hold my iPhone and just, no script, no practice, just talked for about five to six minutes. It’s on Youtube now. What caught their eye was I did a deep Cajun accent for the first 15 seconds. Sounded like a goof-ball Cajun. I did a really deep accent, “I thought ah wuz good wit’ a Fahr-arm ’cause I could shoot dux from a movin’ peerogue” and then I just stopped, smiled really big and in the clearest voice I could manage, because I already have a Cajun accent as it goes, who I was and started talking about myself and the whole story.
That’s kinda how it went down for me. I went to the SHOT show for the first time and took my buddy Max who’s a pro shooter and I got a call from the History Channel telling me that they’d got my application and I was one of the top picks and they wanted me to come down for some final cuts. They picked 50 people to come down for a week and I went through that. Then, I was at the Houston Livestock show with some customers at a BBQ tent when I got the call that I was picked for the show. They offered, and I told them I’d do it.
A lot of people were concerned with how they would look on TV and if it would ruin their reputation and so forth. I never had those doubts in my mind. I knew it didn’t matter whether I lost the first episode or won the whole thing, I was going to show everybody my personality and do the best I could. I was more worried about the life experience that it brought me. It was a good experience for me. Even though I didn’t win it, I handled myself well. I was satisfied with the way I looked on TV.
Now, tons of people know who I am. No matter how many championships Rob Leatham or Todd Jarret have won in the last twenty or thirty years, me being on one reality show because shooting’s been my life since I was twelve years old, more people know who I am than these guys who have been around the sport forever. That’s just kind of a cool deal. I go in the airports and restaurants in the middle of nowhere and people come up to me and they already know my name. It’s kind of a cool feeling.
It doesn’t bother you that millions of viewers saw you pull that bullseye shot low? No, no, I just said it on TV “I just looked like a jackass on TV” but you know, my whole phrase with that is “You’ve got to know what it’s like to lose before you can ever become a winner.” I have a lot of confidence when I go out on the range, and I’ve lost tons of matches. But for every match that I lost I won two. You can’t win every one, you just try your best.
The Beretta is obviously hard to shoot in double action, that’s why I pulled the shot. I anticipated and I jerked the shot. Will that be the last shot I’ll ever jerk? No. I’ll jerk many more for years to come. But for every jerked shot I’ll have five hundred perfect shots. Those are going to win me championships, and I’ll never stop. Win or lose, I just keep driving for my goals and you eventually get what you achieve, what you’re trying for. That’s what I’ve been doing my whole life.
Did you do any particular training in preparation for the show? They didn’t give us a lot of information when we signed up, when we got picked for the show. First of all like I told you before it’s hard for me to train. What I did was, I put down my pistol training for my normal matches because I knew I wasn’t going to be shooting any for a few months.
I went to my dad’s safe, he has probably eighty different types of guns. I grabbed a few of the cowboy guns, which I’m already good at shooting cowboy guns. I shot an M1 Garand. I shot an M1 carbine. I shot a few historical guns. I shot a .308 rifle, just touching in a few areas to make sure I’m comfortable. I shot one compound bow one day, you know, just to get the basics real quick.
Then I went on the show. I was relying more on just the experience I already had under pressure, and the experience I had with pistol shooting. I already knew how to shoot a shotgun… My impression was that they were going to give us more time to practice going out there, but the practices were very short. They told us when we signed up for this deal, “You guys are going to have to adapt to new weapons very quickly, and this is our show. This is our competition, we’re going to do what we want.” That’s why I never complained. Whatever they threw at us, I just went for it and did the best I could in the time I had. Just like life, you don’t know what’s going to be around the next turn. You don’t know what tomorrow’s going to bring. You just try your hardest and hope for the best.
In the beginning episodes, the show revolved around more than just shooting. They tended to play up the drama and interpersonal conflict such as with Caleb and the conspiracy against you and J.J. Did you go into the show with any sort of plan as to how you would negotiate the social aspect of the competition? No, I didn’t go into the show with a particular plan per se. I felt that when we first all got there, everybody was sizing everyone else up, looking at each other. I noticed a lot of egos came out, people were trying to say “Well, I’m this,” or “I’m that,” or “I’m good at this,” and I kinda just shut my mouth and just listened, because you know you really don’t want to go out there and put yourself out on a limb and insult somebody or offend anybody unintentionally.
I don’t really watch Survivor but I know that it comes down to a voting kind of a deal, and sometimes people don’t vote based on performance, they vote based on who they don’t like or they don’t get along with. So I kinda stayed neutral. Basically what I was doing was being myself. I’m nice to everybody, I respect everyone until they don’t respect me. To say they played the drama up, I would disagree. I just think they showed everything exactly how it went down. That wasn’t scripted, they didn’t add to anything. I was really upset with those guys, they really tried to backstab me and J.J. on the show. They were treating the small guy unfairly, trying to intimidate him. I just stood up for him, I stood up for us.
When the Blue Team first walked in there we had made a handshake deal that we were going to vote based on performance. The Red Team seemed to be voting on whatever they though was good that day. They voted on performance one day, the next day they voted on the person they didn’t like. They had so much going on, and as a result of that you could see they failed. They weren’t much of a team for most of the challenges. Pretty much the blue team decimated them for the most part. I know we didn’t win every time, but the Blue Team was trying to act more like a team. That’s how we started off. Everything was good until we lost and then some of the guys on the show started thinking, getting into the Survivor mode. They picked me and J.J. out obviously, they voted us as being world class competitors. We are good shooters, but we also understood the nature of the competition, that anybody could win this competition. It really wasn’t about being the best shot. You had to be a good shot to win it, but the challenges were set up where anybody could go.
Nobody was a sure bet. We valued everybody equally, and when we started out we didn’t think that anybody was better than another person, but some of the guys kinda started getting intimidated. Then we had that whole falling out deal. I told them what I was thinking, I was just honest with the guys. After that I guess it set well with he team. We got into that argument, but after that the Blue Team came together, got over their differences and from that point on we decimated the Red Team until the teams went away.
Speaking of your reputations, you and J.J. seemed to be singled out as the ringers on the Blue Team, and you got picked very often to sit out of particular team challenges. Do you feel that you were treated unfairly? Do you feel that you missed out on the chance to prove yourself and participate more? Yes. Me and J.J., we’re probably of equal talent when it comes to shooting handguns and weapons of that sort. We really have a lot of talent that the world didn’t get to see because of the nature of the competition. I know those guys were still learning, it being the first season. They did a very good job. It’s very entertaining.
The challenges were mostly based on accuracy and not a lot of speed or movement or manipulation of the gun, you know reloads and such. That’s a lot of stuff that we can do amazingly quick. If you go on Youtube and if you look at any of our competitions you’ll see me and J.J. can do some amazing things. We’re able to show a little bit of that with the pistol. It really came out with the AR practice where you saw us mow through these plates at incredible speeds. I think that once word got around that we could do that, a lot of the guys didn’t know what the next challenge was going to be so they figure, “Well, if they throw something that’s got multiple target engagements and quick shooting, we don’t have a chance so let’s get these guys out.”
Also, if you look at J.J. he’s an animal. He looks like an all American athlete, he’s real ripped up and in good physical shape, so they sat us out for a lot of the deals. I thought it was unfair. I really wish that Colby would have told us that the Blue Team got to pick who they would sit out, but each time they let the Red Team pick. The only rule they had in our favor was that they couldn’t sit us out two weeks in a row. But the way the competition went one week they’d have a pistol and the next they’d have a knife or a bow and arrow and then they’d swap back to something we were good at. It just so happened that I got picked on the week that all of the good weapons were, the guns that shot quickly or that I could shoot well. The only ones I got to compete with were the Kentucky long rifle and the bow which I’d fired once in my life.
So yeah, that part was unfair, but that’s the show and you’ve got to go with it. I knew that in the end eventually I’d get to shoot. I got to shoot, but like I said I would have liked to compete more. But you don’t always get what you want.
Tell us about the end. The final challenge you got to was the fuse. When you saw what the challenge was, what was going through your head? We get out there and it’s a fuse, and I’m looking and we’re shooting a 9mm at this little tiny fuse. These were round nose 9mm, and I’m thinking “Wow, this is going to be something else. This is going to take the perfect shot to hit this thing.”
I actually hit the fuse a few times shooting at it, but it was just a nudge. I edged it and the fuse just kind of goes around the bullet if you don’t hit it directly on. You saw some of the other guys hit it a few times and it didn’t fall and the flame went right through and they had to re-shoot the deal. Like I said in my interview on TV I was hoping that we’d have like a .45 caliber or .44 wad cutter or something along those lines so that when you got a decent hit it would just cut that thing and tear it apart. But that wasn’t the case, and I’m thinking in my brain when I walked up “How in the hell am I going to do this? I mean I’m a great shot and all, but just because I’m a great shot doesn’t mean I’m going to cut this deal. There’s a lot of luck involved.”
Some people got lucky and some people actually shot well. If you look at J.J.s group on the second go round his group was like a silver dollar and just ripped away at that fuse. Some other guys hit it with one shot and the entire fuse just falls down to the ground so that there’s no way that it can burn through. There was a lot of luck involved. Some of the guys got through it, but then it was just me an Kelly left and we had to shoot just one shot. The part that I wasn’t happy with, but it was a part of the competition, was that they told us “It’s one shot, but you have to start with the hammer down. It’s got to be a double action shot.”
Well, I did all these cool shots on TV, but I had the gun cocked in single action. If anybody knows the Beretta 92F it probably has the most horrible double action in the industry. It seems like when you pull that thing that it’s about to go off and then it doesn’t go off, and then is does go off. That’s the experience I had. I’m not really a slow fire guy, but I pulled it up and said “I’m going to try to shoot this thing like a rifle, just line the sights up, keep pulling pulling pulling and let the thing surprise me.” On TV, when I thought it was going to go off it didn’t, and then I pulled a little bit more and I felt it. I felt myself jerk the shot. That sucker released and before it hit the target I knew, “Well, it’s over for me.”
One bad shot and I’m gone, but that’s Top Shot you know. A lot of other guys had their bad breaks, some guys got lucky but that’s part of the show. It’s just entertainment. You can get a bad shot. Sometimes you can get by, but if you have a bad shot when you could be gone then that’s it.
You know, I’ve talked to a number of other competitors on Top Shot, and one thing that sticks out is the long lasting friendships that were formed by all of the participants in the competition. On other Survivor style elimination shows, many of the participants walk away with what seems like hatred for the other people. What makes the Top Shot experience so different? Well, if you know shooters, if you’ve been around the shooting world, then you know we’re pretty cordial and nice to each other. Every shooter is. That’s how my dad got started [in competitive shooting]. If those guys at that range that he went to buy the reloading equipment from hadn’t been so welcoming and let him shoot their own gun, I mean he shot their ammo just to get him introduced [to the sport]. That’s a perfect example. They’re just very friendly people.
We’re a tight knit community. We’re real people and we treat each other with respect. We made a lot of good friends on the show. Even a guy I couldn’t stand for one whole episode, Adam, we talked it out after. I wouldn’t call him my best friend like I would Peter, but by no means is he my enemy. We’re friends, we’re acquaintances, just like everybody else on the show was. I guess it’s just that shooters in general are nice people.
What did you take away from the Top Shot, what’s one thing that you learned? Besides the need to focus on Bullseye shooting that is…. {laughs} No, I don’t think I’m switching from USPSA and going into Bullseye shooting.
The best thing about the show was that I made some new friends, people I never would have met. The one thing that I got out of the show is that I’ve got a lot more respect for all the different firearms now. I’ve always been a shooter, meaning that I was always good with a gun, I could shoot very well, but I never was a gun enthusiast where I had to have each different firearm. Now, I have a lot of respect for all the different firearms that were used in the show. It used to be that I’d walk by a gun show and if it wasn’t something I shot like a pistol, I wouldn’t look twice at a Mosin Nagant. Now I have respect for the Mosin Nagant, the Springfield 1903, all the firearms that wrote the history of our country and all the battles fought for it. I have respect for all different firearms now and I have a better understanding of them.
I bought a Mosin Nagant, I picked one up. I have one of those now, and I’ll slowly start acquiring each one as I find a good deal at a gun show or at a gun shop. I also have an increased respect for each person’s discipline. Knife throwing and bows, I’d never messed with that before. Now, I’ll probably order a set of knives because I can throw that in my backyard at a home made target. I’d love to pick up a compound bow and I may get a recurve after that. It’s just got me wanting to be a better shooter all around with different disciplines.
I used to really be just focused on pistol shooting, and I’d shoot shotguns when hunting and just for fun because, in our business, sporting clays and shotgun shooting is kinda like the new golf. Now I’m wanting to just excel at all the different disciplines whether it be bow and arrow, knife throwing, pistol shooting, rifle shooting, I just like to have one of each and get pretty good with all the guns.
Should we look for you on the Cowboy Action Shooting circuit or at an NRA High Power competition? You can’t shoot everything, because there are so many different types of shooting that you kinda have to pick what you want to do. It takes so much time to travel around the country and do all of this. I will be branching out though. The first way I’ll be branching out is by going into 3-gun next, which carries over from USPSA shooting. All I have to do is add a rifle and shotgun into the mix. I’ll probably be doing some small sporting clay competitions, I don’t know how involved I’ll get though. It’s a new goal and a good way to have a good time with some of my customers and clients.
Well, thanks for taking the time to talk with us. I want to thank you guys too, I saw that ya’ll sponsored the Area 3 competition, so thank ya’ll for supporting the USPSA and the shooting sports.
Blake lives in Lafayette Louisiana where he helps his father run the family business. He enjoys getting outdoors as much as possible to go hunting and rock crawling with his Jeep or ATV.
She was the only woman on the History Channel’s reality TV show “Top Shot” but she showed that she could easily keep up with the boys. In the most recent episode that aired Sunday night we watched as Tara Poremba unfortunately had to leave the show early to attend to a family emergency.
Tara was gracious enough to take the time to answer a few questions about her background in the US Marine Corps and as a police officer, as well as her experience on Top Shot.
First off, let me extend my best wishes to you and your family with regards to your father. I’m sure that had to be a difficult time, but it does lead me to my first question. You and your father seemed to be very close. How much did he influence your decision to join the Marines and later become a police officer? Thank you so much for the kind words. My Father and I were very close, he was my number one supporter. He was a big influence on my decisions for both the Military and the Police Department.
Did you have any firearms experience before joining the Marines? No, I didn’t have any experience with firearms growing up. The first time I fired a gun was in the Marine Corps boot camp.
Had you ever done any form of competitive shooting before your appearance on Top Shot? I had tried some PPC (Police Pistol Combat) shooting during my first few years on the department, then after I was assigned to the firearms training unit, I got interested in Bullseye (conventional pistol).
That’s been my main shooting discipline for the last few years. I’m looking forward to trying new disciplines.
Tell me about the Top Gun competition when you were a recruit. You were the first woman to win that, correct? Yes, when I started the Police Academy they told me about a competition called TOP GUN. It was the high shooter of your graduating class. When I started the academy I was told that a woman had never won it, I was determined, I wanted to be the first to win it.
Do you train regularly with firearms? I don’t get to train as much as I would like to. I really miss working at the range when I had access to shoot every day! Now, if I get to the range a couple times a month, or to at least a competition a month, than I’m doing good.
What prompted you to apply to go on to Top Shot? A friend forwarded me the e-mail that they were looking for contestants, so we filled it out. I couldn’t believe it when they told me I made the show.
Did you do any special training, whether it be physical training or firearms/weapons training, before you went on the show? I did go to an archery range, and tried a little bow and arrow. Unfortunately I practiced on a compound bow, which was a lot of fun, but I wish I would have known to try a long bow. I worked out more than usual, just in case the show was going to be physically demanding, I wanted to be prepared.
Were there any other women at the “Top 50” when you first went to California for casting? There were, and they were amazing women!
When did you realize, and what was going through your mind when you realized that you were the only woman on the show? I will admit, at first I was nervous, I didn’t know how the men would take to having a woman in their house, but my fears were subsided after a few days, and I got to know these guys, they were an amazing bunch of guys.
This show was two parts: one part shooting, and one part interpersonal. Did you go into the show with any particular strategy for dealing with the drama and interpersonal conflicts that played so heavily into decisions made on the Nomination Range? Going into the show, we really didn’t know what to expect. We knew we were going to be firing different weapons from history, but we didn’t know we were going to be divided into teams or have to “vote” for our teammates to go to elimination. We learned that the first day, just like everyone watching.
So, no I didn’t have a strategy planned, I just wanted to do my best.
Obviously you took some good natured ribbing from your male competitors. We had so much fun in that house, not a day went by that I didn’t laugh myself to tears with these guys. It was non stop pranks and jokes.
One night Adam and I woke some sleeping teammates with water guns, then someone made a booby trap out of duct tape and hid it next to someone’s bed, so when they woke up they would get all entwined in the tape. Someone had brought in some fishing line and balloons to set water balloon traps when someone opened a door.
There is so much more, but it was just silly things, mostly out of boredom.
So you took part in some of the antics? I admit I did, but I wasn’t the mastermind behind them. I was so nervous that I would be victim of a prank, I rigged the door to my bedroom with a water bottle so that if anyone touched my door knob, my water bottle would fall and it would wake me up. None of the doors had locks.
Throughout the show, you had a flawless performance. You were never even nominated for a single elimination challenge, but you participated in almost all of the team challenges. As the only woman on your team, what was the team dynamic like? My team was amazing, aside from that one “incident” we all got along great. We didn’t have an order of how we were going to vote for the elimination. I loved the way we talked it out and there were no surprises during the nomination range.
Do you feel that you missed out on some of the competition by not being voted into any elimination challenges? Do you feel you got the chance to really demonstrate what you’re capable of? I was able to compete in 7 out of 8 challenges. The Blue Team only lost twice before I left. So, there was only 2 chances of me going to elimination, I’m not upset that I wasn’t voted for elimination, although I would have enjoyed to shoot either of those elimination challenges. They looked fun to shoot!
If you knew what the show was going to be like before you applied, would you still have applied? I think I would. This was an amazing experience, definitely a once in a life time opportunity.
This last episode, you had to deal with some very personal family things that were made very public on national TV. If you care to talk about it, can you give us some insights into how that situation unfolded and how the producers handled it? The producers were very sensitive to my situation, and I appreciated it. They were also very understanding when I told them I needed to go home.
Given your unfortunate early departure from the show, would you consider participating in next season’s Top Shot? Not sure about that one, haven’t really given it much thought. Why… Do you know something?
I’m really enjoying the show, and I can’t wait to watch the next 2 episodes, to see how this all plays out!
Go Blue Team!
What did you learn and what did you take away from the Top Shot experience? I learned so much through this experience, not only about the weapons and history of the weapons, but also I learned a lot about myself. I had a lot on my plate, and I’m proud that I was able to fight through it and still be able to focus on the challenges. I feel very fortunate to have had this opportunity. I also will never regret my decision to leave and be with my family.
This was an amazing experience, unlike anything I could have ever imagined. I can’t tell you how wonderful the other contestants were, I definitelymade some friendships that will last a lifetime.
I know every one was looking forward to seeing you win the Top Shot competition. We were all sad to see you go. Thank you for taking the time to chat with us. Thank you so much!
Tara makes her home in the greater Chicago area where she works as a police officer and K9 handler.
Following up on our interview with Kelly Bachand, we tracked down Brad Engmann and asked him if he could sit down and talk with us about his background in the shooting sports as well as his elimination this week from the History Channel’s reality TV show “Top Shot”.
Living in San Francisco, there aren’t many gun ranges or shooting clubs to be a part of, but Brad showed an interest in shooting from an early age. It wasn’t until years later that he discovered USPSA and action shooting, and this late discovery led him to wonder why it doesn’t have more exposure in the Bay Area. His drive to help move the shooting sports into the mainstream of society is part of what motivated him to apply to be on Top Shot.
Here’s what he had to say about his early years shooting and his experience on the show.
Cheaper Than Dirt: How long have you been shooting and how did you get started shooting? I know being in San Francisco you probably didn’t grow up around firearms. Brad: What ended up happening was that I convinced my dad to take me to the range when I was 13. There is obviously not a very big firearms base out here in San Francisco, but just thought that it’d be cool to go and he took me. That was nice of him. We actually ended up making it kind of our weekend thing, so we’d always go to the range. It was just a static range, there was nothing particularly special about it.
What I ended up doing was that I was into car racing for a while and I’d take my car up to the track and I’d end up working on cars and building them and all that type of stuff. One thing that I kind of liked about shooting was that when cars got really expensive there was the same racing appeal where you could just go out and try to go as fast as possible. It kind of played on my previous experience at the range for a while. I picked up USPSA about three years ago I would say.
Cheaper Than Dirt: It’s funny that you should mention car racing, I know that John Bagakis had a background racing cars before he got started in the shooting sports. Myself and a number of us working at Cheaper Than Dirt! who participate in the shooting sports like IDPA and IPSC also raced cars until we discovered that bullets were less expensive than tires. Brad: Yeah, and if your gun blows up you’re out only $900 to replace the whole thing, versus taking out your car in a wall.
It’s interesting to see how many competitive shooters have made the transition from racing to shooting. Tell me, did your family own a firearm before your dad took you out to the range that first time? We actually rented one for many many years. We didn’t own one. I would shoot, ironically a Beretta 92F.
Similar to the one you complained so much about on Top Shot- Well, there’s a little more to the story than that-
OK, we’ll get into that in a little bit- But yeah, there was that and then I ended up buying a 96 in .40 S&W, it was the Brigadier version with the heavier slide and I kinda scrapped that in favor of a Sig P226 later on. That’s what I shot my first USPSA year with was the 226.
How old were you when you got your first pistol? My dad bought it when I was I guess 16 or 17, because I said “What’s the point of us renting the thing…” It wasn’t really necessary for us to have a gun, but it was more of a cost issue. I liked to go shooting and it was just practical to just have our own firearm.
It’s always been a sport thing for me. I was never really particularly concerned [about self defense]. Obviously the arguments are sensible and everything else, but my main concern was the sporting aspect. It wasn’t the defense issue.
So, you’re racing cars. You’re going to the range and shooting on the weekends. At what point did you decide to take up shooting as a competitive sport? I actually quit shooting altogether for about 4 years or so. The reason was because I really wasn’t aware of USPSA. this is something I think is an issue with the shooting sports in general. There’s not a lot of information that’s propagated throughout just the mainstream shooting community as far as what’s available in terms of sports.
I’ll talk to people about USPSA and they’re amazed that this thing even exists, that they let us go running around with guns and shoot stuff. They’ve never even fathomed that there would be something out there like that. So I just wasn’t aware, and I got bored just shooting at paper at a static range. Racing was more fun, and of course you pick up more girls with cars than you can with handguns. I just kinda stopped shooting for a while, but once the racing element got really expensive I got really frustrated with it.
I started looking into more sports and actually, I saw something on the History Channel in a Mail Call episode where this guy was shooting a plate rack, and he said “I’m from USPSA,” and I thought “What’s that?” and I looked them up.
You can blame the Gunny then for getting you started in USPSA. I can blame him, that’s exactly right.
As you got into USPSA, I’m sure you had to have picked up a mentor or a coach, or even just someone you looked up to within the sport. Who is someone who you look up to, who you try to model yourself and your shooting style after? And who are your mentors? Actually, the interesting thing about that is that while there were people who I met at the club who were helpful and would give me pointers, I never really had a coach. What happened was is that I didn’t really know anybody at the club. I just thought it would be fun and I just drove out there by myself and took the class.
I shot the first match by myself. Actually the first stage that I ever shot I was so nervous that I forgot to put in my earplugs. It was an IDPA match fortunately and it was only 16 rounds [on that stage]. I was so focused on hitting the targets, and at the end of the stage I unloaded and showed clear and I remember wondering “What the hell was that ringing sound?” I thought something was wrong with my hearing protection until I realized “Oh! It’s not there!”
But I never had a mentor per se. Pretty much what it’s been, is that I discovered it was fun, and I discovered it was something I want to be good at. I worked as a range officer at my local club so that I could go out and practice whenever I wanted, but it’s just been essentially me figuring it out.
It’s kind of difficult to figure out exactly if you’re doing everything right. As far as the top guys, I just knew that I wasn’t shooting as fast as some of these guys could, especially Vogel and Sevigny. They’re both in production, they’re both shooting the same gun that I was at that point. I would just constantly watch videos of them and try to discern what techniques they were using. I remember there’s a video on the GSSF Foundation where Sevigny is aiming a Glock at the camera and I would freeze frame that and then look in the mirror to see if my grip angle was correct on my left hand. It was just a lot of careful scrutiny trying to figure out what the right thing to do was.
It’s a lot like golf. There are a lot of small adjustments that can be made within the hand and hand position, the grip strength and everything else, that will have a dramatic effect on your shooting. With the absence of a coach and even with the difficulty of trying to analyze it on video, those little adjustments are very important to make. So I had to look to a lot of the top guys to see what they were doing so I could just try to, for now, emulate it.
Let’s talk about training. Do you still train regularly? I do. One of the guys in my club is a really top level shooter, his name’s Keith Garcia. He shoots 3-gun a lot but he’s a Grand Master in Limited and just became a Grand Master in Production. He’s a really really excellent shooter and he’s been helpful to me in the past. He’s pointed out some things that have kinda been wrong that I’ve had to work with.
As far as training is concerned, one of the things he turned me on to is airsoft training and shooting every day. Which, even if I’m not shooting live fire I’ll try to get the airsoft gun out and shoot some steel targets in my garage. I’ve got a full setup in there, much to the chagrin of my girlfriend.
Some people are content shooting for fun, they’re hobbyists and they’re going to do what they want to do. But some people who are really driven, who really want to be at the top of this game, are going to have to carefully analyze every iota of it because if you lose by a second in this game you’re going to lose by a lot. Everything has to be tuned to such perfection. At the higher levels you’re really trying to squeeze every bit of performance out that you possibly can.
For new shooters, I think that people are sometimes afraid to try new things, because what you see in a performance curve you see a dip in performance, even if it’s something that’s worthwhile to try out. You’re obviously going to screw up for a while when you’re trying to adapt. Vogel has a good quote in his video which is “You’ll try something in practice again and again until finally you’ll be in the middle of a match and you’ll just realize that you’ve been doing it and that it’s finally sunk in to your subconscious.” That’s when you know that you’re going to be able to adopt it well. But what a lot of people do is they will fall into a comfort zone and they’ll refuse to either listen to advice or try new things because they don’t want to have that dip in performance and fail for a brief period of time and experiment. I think that’s a very essential component.
You mentioned airsoft. We’ve spoken to Dave Sevigny and Caleb Giddings who both promote dry fire. How comparable do you find airsoft to be to dry fire practice? I think there’s two elements to that. The first of which is that airsoft is just more fun. My buddy who’s an SF Sheriff produces a bunch of targets called Bam Airsoft. They have Texas Stars, they have plate racks, they have timers, they have a full steel challenge course that you can set up. You get the reciprocating action of the gun, and it’s fun to watch the targets fall down. The problem with dry fire for me is that you have to rack the gun for each trigger pull. Unless you want to move around the house practicing your footwork and not pulling the trigger, I don’t think it’s mentally engaging. You don’t know what limits to push.
In the absence of anything else, it’s a good thing to try.
Do you find the simulated recoil of the airsoft to pretty closely replicate live fire? You can’t really practice recoil that well. It’s the equivalent of somebody going out there with a .22 LR. Because there’s no recoil on the gun you should be able to shoot that much faster. You can focus on your transitions and you can focus on your splits and pulling the trigger as fast as you possibly can. When you go out to the real range, make sure that you have the grip strength and that you get your timing down. There are certain things that you can practice really well with airsoft that are superior to dry fire in a lot of ways.
What type of training do you do? What’s an average week of training look like for you? It’s a lot. Some times I burn out a little bit. I was shooting live fire about 3 times a week or so, and I would drop about 1,000 rounds a week. Then I would shoot a few hundred BBs every night when I wasn’t on the range. If I didn’t go to the range I would come home and I would, even if I didn’t want to and I was tired and had to get up for work, I would still go out to the garage and shoot a few hundred BBs in about 15-20 minutes. That really helps.
There are these elite guys in shooting like Vogle, Leatham, Sevigny, even Blake Miguez and J.J., those guys are the elite of shooting and I’m not there. I realize that. So, the way I practice is I’m trying to- you know Sevigny, who you inteviewed, said he only practices sometimes once a week, and I can understand why because he already has the skill. He’s doing a lot of maintenance. Obviously he’s trying to figure some speed elements out, but I’m still trying to figure out how to get up there. That’s why I practice so often.
Let’s move on and talk about Top Shot for a bit. What prompted you to apply to be a Top Shot contestant? You get to be on TV dude! {laughs} But, ah… shooting needs a big mainstream appeal. Getting back to what I mentioned earlier, a lot of people aren’t aware of my sport. I think shooting in some places, in particular out here [in San Francisco and California in general], kinda gets a bad rap. People I think will dismiss it outright in some areas, either the defensive elements or the sportsman elements, or generally they’ll just look at you [strangely]. When I explain to some people what I do, like say when I just get back from practice and I’m meeting my girlfriend’s friends or my coworkers and they ask “Oh, what are you practicing?” expecting me to say “Softball” or “Bowling” and when I say “Oh, I’m a competitive pistol shooter,” they go “Really?!”
Invariably I can get them interested once I kind of explain it, but there’s not a lot of mainstream exposure. One of my side elements, aside from becoming rich and famous, was to hopefully promote the sport a little bit and to get people more aware that shooting competitively is a sport. It’s something that a lot of people, families, and whoever else can enjoy. It’s not like we’re training for the apocalypse out here. We’re shooting targets and we’re doing so in a very athletic way.
Did you do any particular training or preparation prior to your appearance? Well, the funny thing was when I was in between racing and shooting my hobby was a lot of weight lifting. I mean a lot. I blew out my left knee playing football and what I ended up doing was when I was rehabbing it was that I got really heavy into weights. I got up to dead lifting 425, squatting a ton of weight, bench pressing a lot, but the problem was that wasn’t really doing it for me. It was kinda like shooting at a static range. I didn’t know what I was training for.
So, I took all the time I was putting into weight lifting, which was 4-5 days a week, and put all of that into shooting. Which was why I went from barely making B-Class in 2008 to becoming a Grand Master a year and a half later. It was just all the time. What I ended up doing was neglecting my physical shape. I ended up putting on a big paunch because I wasn’t lifting weights. Pulling a trigger doesn’t really burn too many calories. So yeah, I had to hit up the gym, but J.J. still made us look like a bunch of sissies, walking around there like freakin’ Superman all day.
You didn’t do any extra pistol work or pick up a rifle or a bow and arrow in preparation for the show? The thing was we didn’t have any idea what the show was going to be like, we just knew it was a competition show and that the History Channel was doing it, and that there might be some mystery projectile weapons.
A buddy of mine shoots SASS (that’s Single Action Shooting Society or Cowboy Shooting), so I went and borrowed his Peacemaker, his single shot shotgun, I borrowed his double barrel shotgun, I borrowed a Winchester 73, and then I took out my own AR (which I don’t shoot too much) and was drilling targets there. It turned out, after having been on the show, that a lot of the challenges were accuracy based and didn’t require movement, at least when I was there.
My training was organized a little bit more around speed shooting I think, but I just wanted to get familiar with all of the types of guns. I think I got the reload down for the single action pretty good, but it’s difficult to train when you don’t know what the contest is so I just tried to get as familiar as possible.
Obviously those who might be applying for Season 2 are going to have a distinct advantage. Oh yeah, because they know exactly what it is they’re getting into. We didn’t. We didn’t know there were going to be teams until we were on the day we went up to the mansion and I started noticing the sound people had carts and one of them said “Red” and the other said “Blue” and I’m thinking “What the hell is going on here?” Then they walked us up and of course Colby came in and said “You guys are on a Red and a Blue Team.”
I had no idea. I kinda assumed it was going to be the kind of show where you would have a given weapon for that week and then the people who performed the worst would be eliminated. I didn’t know there was going to be much of anything, but the same producer who did Survivor also did Top Shot, so maybe it should have been more in the back of my mind.
Did you go into the show with any particular strategy in mind? I refuse to vote for anybody based on politics, I just did not want to. I voted exclusively based on performance. Much like what Caleb did, even though percentage wise Blake and J.J. are better shooters, if you were to take just a random shooting competition they would end up beating me. I still wouldn’t want to vote them out, I would want to shoot against them even if there was the hundred grand at stake.
I made a point of trying not to talk trash about my fellow competitors, and not to play politics once I found out there was the team voting. What you saw in Episodes 2 and 3 was I wasn’t entirely sure the direction the competition was going in, and then there was just a little bit of frustration there.
Let’s get into the first elimination challenge you were involved in with Frank on the MGM Ironman style zipline during episode 2. You had to be pretty happy seeing that challenge, it seemed to play right into your strong suit. Yeah, I was happy about seeing that. Either way, even if I lost, I thought it was going to be awesome that I had to go down a zip line on national TV. That’s not something that you can say that you did every day.
I knew that it played to my strengths in transitions, and then there were a couple of strategy elements going in there on how to shoot the course. I thought that I pretty much had it in the bag when I was introduced to the challenge.
Stop for a second and tell me a bit about your strategy going into the challenge. Did you have any idea where the targets were before you got on there? We had no idea where the targets were, but I kinda anticipated it was going to be a left to right. I could see a bunch down at the bottom of the hill, but the first ones that popped up were a surprise.
What the legal team told me was that if you hit the target, it’s going to shatter, and that’s going to count as a hit. They said they were made out of glass. So I come down the zip line and I shoot the first target on the right and it has just a center bullet hole, and I’m wondering “Is this supposed to shatter?” so I shot it twice and I missed the one on the left because I was too busy shooting the first one twice. Afterwards what I did was I shot a bunch of rounds at each one of the targets because I wanted to make sure that I claimed the hits because they couldn’t really see them. I wasn’t sure entirely with the gun.
If it was completely dialed in, like in USPSA, you call your hits. You shoot the target once, you know what your sights looked like, and you move on. But there, I wasn’t entirely sure of point of aim so I made sure to throw three rounds at each one. I took a conservative run on the first one. I went to slide lock too.
I got a few edges which weren’t called as hits, so they were close, but they have the arbitration team and everything else. What ended up happening in the second run once there was a tie was I knew that I could do a single shot with each one. They took out the first two targets and we went down and there were eight targets and two bonus targets. I came out of the gate and just go one for one in each of the three, and this is like a 40 yard shot or so. I just went 1, 2, 3, on the first three targets, shooting just over my feet.
Then I was kinda stupid, and you can see this in elimination interview. I thought I had plenty of time I can hit all of these, so I threw two rounds at the bonus target on the left. The problem that I had was that the zip line picked up in speed. I was so focused on hitting the bonus target that I then had to swing back and I had shoot two more targets on the right. At that point, because Frank had done pretty well on the first challenge, he’s a good shooter. I know people have been questioning his Weaver stance, but you’re strapped into a chair so you can’t move your shoulders at all. You couldn’t pivot your body. You can only move your hands, so the Weaver stance doesn’t matter. It’s only whether or not you can deliver a single shot on a target accurately. That’s certainly something Frank could do, he’s a very good natural shooter.
I thought I’d lost at that point because we both hit five targets on our first run, and I had an opportunity to clean all of them and I got stupid and chased the bonus one, so I thought Frank was just going to go down there and run me. I really did. That was a very bad feeling when I had to wait for 45 minutes to an hour for them to reset everything so Frank could shoot. When I heard him fire about 8 or 9 shots, I thought “I’m toast…” but he didn’t get it. I just think he had a bad run, he had a good chance of winning that time.
One thing that people don’t realize is, they’re so used to the 4th wall on television, that when they watch things they assume that the participants are unaware of what’s happening and how they’re going to be perceived. I knew that if I lost that challenge, the pistol challenge, that as a USPSA guy I was going to get lit up. Absolutely lit up. Furthermore, I was eliminating Frank who I’d met in casting, and we’d hung out a lot. I knew him pretty well and he’s a really good guy. I really thought I was going to go home and I eventually won on a wing and a prayer. I had to eliminate a good guy that everybody liked, so there was a lot going on and I just went back and kinda crashed out.
Moving on to the bow and arrow challenge, that seemed like a pretty frustrating challenge for everyone involved and the red team ended up losing. What went into the process that resulted in you being chosen on the nomination range and sent to the next elimination challenge? That I wasn’t too sure about. I know there were some personality issues. The thing is that the conflicts are going to be enhanced on television. You have to figure that you’re living with somebody for a while, and even if there’s a little bit of a disagreement going on that might motivate the voting, you’re still living with them. You’re still eating with them, you’re still hanging out with them, you’re sitting in the van for 2 hours waiting to be on set with them.
There wasn’t a huge amount of tension or animosity there, and for me I didn’t mind. The bow and arrow challenge I thought was more of a crap shoot because nobody really had any advantage there. If you could deliver arrows accurately on target you were in good shape. The difference between Kelly and J.J.’s shot was determined by a myriad of factors. Skill is one of them, but there were a number of others that went into them making that shot. As I said, I didn’t really care if they were going to vote for me. That didn’t matter to me.
As I said I’m not going to play politics. If you’re going to vote for me, whatever. I’m here because I want to shoot, I’m not here to sit out and not be there in the challenge. I’m not going to try to shy away from a challenge. This is what I do. This is why I’m on the show.
Still, it seemed like your tone changed once you realized that you might be eliminated after the bow and arrow challenge, with your now infamous quote being repeated across the internet. You know, that quote was made into a T-shirt by James Ong who’s a grand Master Open Class shooter. So, at the California Golden Bullet this year, everybody showed up with a shirt [with the quote], and under there was a picture of a bow and arrow shooter with a circle and a line through it. I’m actually wearing the shirt right now.
If I knew it would have been cross bows, I would have been happy, but I thought there was just going to be another bow and arrow thing. To me it just seemed entirely a luck issue. I mean, if you’re shooting at a target 30 yards away that’s one thing, but we were shooting with this long bow at 100 yards with literally about 15 arrows practice. At that point I’m saying I’m happy to shoot against whoever. That’s why I’m here, but to put me up against somebody in a bow and arrow challenge, it’s like “What’s the point?” I mean, if I got eliminated there then I would have been like “Well, why even bother?” Anybody could get eliminated at this thing. You’re taking skill out of the equation if it was bows and arrows at that point.
That’s something Caleb touched on in one of our interviews. It was a marksman challenge designed to have competitors be able to pick up virtually any projectile weapon and be proficient with it. As I said, I thought it was going to be, when I first went on the show, an event where it was going to be multiple weapons with the worst performer in each particular genre, or in that particular episode, would be going home. That’s how I thought they were going to eliminate everybody.
I knew I was going to be shooting a bow and arrows, don’t get me wrong. I read the description of the show. The thing was I thought that the bow and arrows were going to be one of many factors in determining somebody’s overall performance and whether or not they’re out of there. Which is fair. For me to go on the show and represent shooting and have a lot of background in practicing shooting and then to not just compete in this thing, but have the chance to be eliminated and leave the show and go home on something, it seemed to me that was like rolling dice or something.
Fortunately it was crossbows. Those crossbows were bad ass. They were dialed. They had cool triggers. It was an interesting thing to shoot, and it was based on a skill set that I think both of us had.
On to the challenge. It looked like it was windy that day. How did that affect your performance? There were a couple of funny things about that challenge. The first of which was that we didn’t shoot at 10 yards. I talked to Bill Trowbridge who was the expert. Just before we went to shoot at 10 yards he said “You might want to use the top of the triangle on the reticle.” I convinced them to let us look through a scope to figure out what the hell he was talking about.
My first shot I used exactly what he said but I didn’t hit the target. It went over it, so I had to aim at the bottom of the apple to hit it at 10 yards. The second part was about the wind. At 40 yards it was less predictable because the wind was swirling a little bit. What actually happened was I got on that 40 yard target very fast, and I dropped a couple of arrows at it and I finally hit the target. You can see the apple spinning on the show. What happened was, there are people who are supposed to call out the hits. They didn’t call it as a hit. Bill was saying “I think that’s a hit,” and then I say “I think that’s a hit,” and then Bill Carns is still reloading to shoot again so I’m like “Is that a hit? Is that a hit?” Meanwhile I’m reloading the crossbow, thinking how hilarious would that be to spin the thing and then hit the next target. What I actually had to do was I picked the same point of aim, which was about the left edge of that circle and I drilled it right through.
After that show, the Red team had a pretty good run and won some team events. Still, the team was pretty small at this point, it was just you, Kelly, Peter, and Denny. Going into the single action shooting challenge ya’ll had a small team and suffered another loss. It looked like Denny had put in a pretty poor performance but still didn’t get nominated for an elimination challenge. We’ve heard from Denny and Kelly to get their point of view, but what did you see? Why Kelly and Andre instead of Denny and one of those two? Well the thing was at that point, Kelly and Andre looked the worst in the challenge. The thing for Denny was that he had a few bad habits he developed from doing his cowboy mounted shooting.
The difference that appeared to me in my mind, and this is something that you can’t pick up on television, Kelly and Andre seemed very uncomfortable with the Peacemaker. When you watch them shoot it, Andre had two ADs. He had two of them in a row. Kelly was missing, he missed some of the biggest targets, 8 or 9 shots I thought. It wasn’t just having a bad day, because everybody can have a bad day. I don’t think people should be judged on their shooting performance just for having one bad day.
The reason Andre accidentally discharged was because his finger was in the trigger guard when he pulled back the hammer and he let the hammer fall onto the chamber. The reason J.J. accidentally discharged is because we were told we could only load the gun with 5 rounds instead of 6. What happened to him was that in practice they were doing it a different way, whereas in the challenge he loaded in the 5, except instead of skipping a chamber and loading them all in, he loaded them all in and then skipped a chamber. Or maybe it was the other way around. The point is, he had to cock the hammer and then rotate the cylinder over, when he actually didn’t have to. He ended up dropping the hammer onto a loaded chamber, it was just a reloading thing because he lacked the familiarity. Not his fault at all. That could happen to anybody.
Andre accidentally discharged twice, and I could see just watching him that he looked like he was in Never-Never Land out there. The same thing goes for Kelly, he looked a bit like an inexperienced shooter at that point with the pistol. That kinda stuck out in my mind a little bit when I said, “Well, this is a challenge that requires multiple shot engagements. It’s a handgun, and it requires some speed.” Just watching them I thought “This is why the two of them should go,” because Denny, it just seemed like he had his act together but he just had a bad run. He looked comfortable behind the gun, whereas Kelly and Andre did not.
In this most recent episode, it came down to yourself and Kelly shooting shotguns, and of course you got sent home after that one. Tell me a bit about the team performance leading up to the elimination range. I had a great practice session. I shot really well on the double action, I think it was the Smith & Wesson. It had like a 9 pound trigger. It was probably the worst trigger you could ever feel for a revolver you had to shoot accurately with one hand. A lot of us did pretty well with that. The next one was the mirror shooting, which I did not do incredibly well with. Kelly, Denny, and Pete all did well, they all drilled exactly what they were looking for.
Then it came to be the cabbage challenge. I read your interview with Kelly, I actually was the first person to hit. I got two hits on the cabbage. The first one was a graze, the second one I drilled. Pete was terrible on it, Kelly hit one, and Denny didn’t hit any. When we got back there was the Bocce ball thing, I actually was out there practicing for a little while. They had this picture frame that you stack on a desk and it holds the picture flat.
I’m not sure if [Kelly] was out there at the same time, but it’s that type of thing where they’ll have the camera on there and somebody will be out there for a limited period of time. We were out there a bunch. I didn’t practice nearly as much as Pete and Kelly did. That’s certainly true, but when it came time for the team challenge the reason I went for the “Play It Safe” strategy is because I didn’t think Chris was going to hit two out of three for the nails.
But one thing I must say is that there’s been a lot of single shot stuff and there’s been a lot of memory stuff that didn’t involve very difficult shots. The Peacemaker challenge where Chris performed he hit 12 for 12 out of that, and he also was able to hit 2 out of 3 nails. I think that it’s, surprisingly to me, the least talked about performance out of everybody on the show. Chris impressed me a lot with how he was able to deliver on those two challenges. Nobody expected him to go 2 for 3, we thought maybe he’d get lucky and get 1.
Things obviously didn’t work out quite the way you had planned on that challenge, the Red team lost, and you and Kelly were sent to the elimination challenge. Going into that elimination, when you saw you were going to be shooting shotguns, what was your reaction? Have you ever fired shotguns at clay pigeons before? I’ve done a little bit. I’ve shot skeet maybe three times in my life. Once I learned the technique of it, just putting the little bead on the target, I got pretty good at it. The only other time I’ve shot skeet was hanging out with Blake Miguez in Louisiana with Pete down there a couple of weeks ago, and we were out in the pouring rain and Blake brings out these humongous boxes of skeet and shotgun shells. I actually tried the trick again, but I actually discovered there was a different way of doing it which actually worked out a little bit better, but I’d never really thrown a skeet before.
But I was confident going into the challenge. In the practice itself when Scott was throwing for me, in one instance I went 5 for 5 on his throws, and I could hit 4 pretty much every time out of the 5 that he threw up. My throws were good too. The caveat was when I got out there and attempted to make the throws. Scott emphasized throwing them up very very high and using your legs a lot. What I would do was get into a crouch like I was doing a lunge, and I’d just whip them up into the air. The problem was when I had the shotgun on my left hip it ended up causing me to short stroke the throw. What you’ll see there is the skeet don’t go very high at all, and they go all over the place because of the short stroke.
What I discovered when I watched some videos of Tom Knapp, is that it’s actually a lot easier to hold the shotgun without it touching your body just with your left hand. Then hold the skeet so that instead of holding them with your thumb on the top and your fingers on the bottom and then trying to twist, instead you rotate them around so that they sit lengthwise in your hand and just keep your left thumb on the edge and just roll them off of your fingers. Then without using your legs a whole lot you just come up and shoot them.
I think that Scott had us going over a more advanced technique which probably works really well for exhibition, but I think that as a novice it was more difficult for me to pick that up while shooting the shotgun. We weren’t able to practice throwing while holding the shotgun in practice either.
During the challenge itself, Kelly was the first to have a miss when he only claimed 1 bird out of 2. At that point, did you think you had a pretty good chance of winning? Yeah, I thought I had it in the bag. He went up and he threw one and I thought “OK, I got this. I’m just going to go up and claim my lead and keep moving.” But when you look at that throw, if you watch I threw the first one and it hovered at the horizon and I drilled that, but the second one went like 30 feet into the air above it, so I had to track this thing and it’s falling at like 30 miles per hour. I had to shoot it right in the middle of a fall. I’m thinking that I can hit these, but if I have another throw like that, I’m in trouble.
I threw three and only hit one and I was kinda pissed off because the three went pretty much about as far spread out as you could possibly get. So I hit the first one on the left and then swung around and the second one was already dropping below the horizon. So, we were pretty much split at that point. When it came to 4, I remember this like it’s burned into my mind, Kelly threw up an absolutely perfect group of 4, and I just remember standing there, I was surprised he didn’t hit all 4. At that point I already knew that I had lost it because when I came up to 5 I was already debating about throwing the skeet a different way. It was going that badly for me. I just took in a breath and looked out at the mountains and I threw up my 5, determined to shoot them as fast as possible. I shot all 5 shots, but I only hit 2 targets since I was chasing the third below the horizon again.
Unfortunately, it wasn’t enough and you ended up eliminated by just one clay. What was it like to be on the set, in the heat of competition, at one moment, and then almost quite literlly on a plane heading home then next? It was very surreal to me. It’s not like there’s a cool down time, there’s no readjustment period. You’re living in fantasy Hollywood-land for a while, you can’t talk to people when you want to, you can’t go online, you can’t do this, you can’t do that, and then all of the sudden I’m sitting in the middle of LAX having my first beer in three and a half weeks. I’m just thinking, “I was just on a reality TV show just 2 hours ago, and here I am on my iPhone having my beer. I’m suddenly back in civilization.
I was looking forward to getting back and seeing my girlfriend, and then kinda getting back into the world. Believe you me, I went out and threw up some skeet on the range the next day and tried to do the “Mental Sanity Test.” I still couldn’t throw them very well. The only time I could throw them well was when I shot with Blake and he had me try his technique.
What did you learn, what did you take away from the Top Shot experience? I’ll put it this way: There is a lot of pressure involved when shooting on television. There is a lot of pressure. There have been a couple of things that I learned. Immediately after the show, one thing that I realized is that you have to calm down and shoot your game.
People saw a lot of me on the show, and it looked like I was getting mad at equipment issues or whatever else. Really how I am is I’m very hard on myself. If I go out there and mess up a stage, if it costs me the match, I kinda go on tilt. I stop caring about the match and get pissed off. People on my squad would notice a complete 180 switch. I would be jovial and happy when I was hanging out with people and cracking jokes or whatever, but after I threw a couple of mikes [misses] for about 45 minutes I’m not somebody you want to talk to. I wouldn’t be very friendly.
Just thinking about that, and thinking about it in context with the show, reading the comments and seeing myself on television, one thing I said in a post in the forums is that people are going to remember your character a lot more than they’re going to remember your shooting performance. What I was too concerned with during the show is that I knew what people were going to think. I knew people were going to think as a result of that rifle challenge in episode 1, I knew what people were going to think as a result of the Beretta, but the funny thing was what I really got hammered on was my personality. Obviously it was a caricature that I didn’t think was entirely fair, but I was getting hammered for my worst elements. I wasn’t getting hammered for my shooting performance. People started criticizing my shooting performance because they didn’t like me as a person on the show.
What occurred to me is that I need to tone it down and stop being so intense on the range. It’s the same drive that’s driven me to become good at my sport that also can sometimes cause me to go on tilt and get irritable and start not being the best teammate somebody could have. Nobody wants to hang around a guy who’s pissed off. I need to relax and enjoy it more. Calm down and enjoy the shooting more. That’s part of the competitive mindset that guys like Enos will talk about in his book.
It sounds like quite the life changing experience then. I want to thank you for taking the time to talk to us about your background and your experience on Top Shot It’s been a pleasure. Hope to see you on the range some day.
Brad Engmann is a Project Manager in San Francisco. He’s also a USPSA ranked Grand Master in the production class, and he competes regularly at Area level competitions.
Kelly Bachand is young, still in his early 20s, but he’s made quite a name for himself as a long range rifle shooter. He’s won numerous national competitions, as well as the World Championship long range rifle match as a part of the Young Eagles US Rifle Team. Lately you might have seen him on the History Channel’s new reality TV show “Top Shot”.
Kelly is still a college student, and has a busy schedule between competition, classes, and his part time job he uses to pay for his education. Still, he managed to make time for us to sit down with him and talk a bit about his shooting experience as well as give us some insights behind the scenes of Top Shot.
You’ve been shooting since a very young age. How did you first get involved in the shooting sports? I’ve been shooting ever since I was about 5 years old. Like many I got a Red Ryder BB gun for my 5th Christmas, but the very next day we had to take it back and return it for one that was a little more accurate.
I guess it’s safe to say you didn’t put anyone’s eye out? I put no one’s eyes out. I mean, this was back when we took the BB gun out Christmas day and we were shooting at pop cans and stuff at a local park. Now I’m pretty sure if you brought a BB gun out there someone would call the cops.
So I shot recreationally for many years with my dad, we’d go hunting, target shooting at the range. My grandpa would always give me guns, he gave me a .22 rifle for my 10th birthday and a .22 pistol a couple of years later.
It was in high school that I first started competing. I saw when I was signing up for classes that I could take a class about shooting and that it fulfilled my P.E. requirement. For three years in high school I did Marine Corps JROTC Marksmanship and I did all right. I won some things, lost many things as well and then after graduating from high school there was a couple of months when I didn’t shoot at all competitively. I didn’t really know that there was more to do after I shot air rifle in high school until a buddy from church invited me to come out and start shooting High Power.
I shot High Power for a year, which is an AR-15 at ranges from 200 – 600 yards and I did well so I was encouraged to start shooting more long range, 600 yards and farther using open sights. Then, in 2006 is when I tried out for the USA Young Eagles Team, which was the under 21 long range rifle team. I ended up making it and I won a couple of things. I believe I was high junior in the Leech Cup and the high junior in a couple of other things. I think I won a 600 yard match where I was the high expert. I’d have to check back to remember what exactly I won that year.
Sounds like a busy year. It seems you’ve pretty much stuck to rifles in competition. Why did you choose rifles instead of another shooting sport like International Free Pistol, IDPA, or IPSC? It’s just kinda the way it happened. I did shoot a little bit of air pistol in high school. We had a couple of months where we set down the air rifles and picked up the air pistols. Kind of like when you do Free Pistol, 10 meters one handed, so I did to that for a little bit. It didn’t really grow on me as much as the rifles did, simply because the rifle portion was made easy for me. People were lending me rifles and encouraging me to come out and shoot matches.
As in most shooting sports I was able to get into it and succeed because there were many more experienced shooters with extra equipment lending me their rifles, lending me their spotting scopes so that I could get started.
Now when you got started in Palma you got Mac Tilton to donate a gun for you. Yes, but that didn’t happen for a few years. In 2007, 2008, and the first part of 2009 I was actually shooting a Washington State Association rifle. It was a Savage, kind of an older rifle, but that was what I shot in the World Championships in 2007 and that’s what I won quite a few things with from 2006-2008.
Then when I turned 21 I was no longer considered a Junior so I was no longer able to borrow that rifle. I wrote a couple of letters and sent them out to people that I thought could possibly sponsor me and Mac responded. That turned out to be a very very good relationship. Just a few months after he built me the rifle I won the Canadian Nationals with it.
Let’s talk about training. What type of training do you do? What’s an average week of training look like for you? I probably don’t train as much as someone like an Olympic shooter might. I typically practice once a week, sometimes twice a week. I have a 600 yard range not too far away and I go there every other week with my team. I shoot somewhere between 40 and 80 shots from prone, the same sort of thing I’ll do in competition.
We do things to simulate long range, because the 1,000 yard range is quite a ways away. I have to drive out of state to get to the closest one. We shoot a target at 600 yards that’s been scaled down to look like a 1,000 yard target, so it’s really a very small target we’re shooting. Then, when I’m on my own, I will go out to a 200 yard range and just plink away by myself.
Now, as far as someone without a whole bunch of natural skill becoming competitive? They absolutely can do it with some discipline. Getting instruction is extremely important so they can learn the proper fundamentals. As far as being competitive and winning at a national or international level, I do think there is a little bit of innate skill that’s needed.
You’ve referred to yourself in the past as a prodigy… I haven’t referred to myself as that, but I’ll accept it if people want to call me that. I am a little more modest than I’m sometimes portrayed on TV. I’ve kinda grown into being the kind of person who just lets my shooting score speak for itself. But yeah, being as young as I am and being good at a sport that is typically dominated by much more experienced shooters puts me into an area where people are going to call me a prodigy.
Let’s talk about those more experienced shooters. Who is someone who you look up to, who you try to model yourself and your shooting style after? And who are your mentors? In the long range game there are a couple of people that are typically dominating. The thing that I look for and the thing that I strive for is to be able to win or lose and still make and keep friends. Some people aren’t good at that, and you’ll see some really arrogant people out there winning all the time, but no one wants to talk to them. That’s not the person I want to be.
I’ve got a couple of friends, people that I look up to, one of which is Michelle Gallagher. She’s won at long range matches all over the country, internationally also. She does it always with a smile on her face. I definitely look up to her as a friend and a competitor, I talk to her all the time. We bounce a lot of good ideas off of each other. Another good friend and competitor is Bryan Litz, and then someone who just shoots like a machine is Tom Whitaker. He’s pretty much set and holds all of the records in the Palma shooting world. If you can hope to shoot like anyone, that’s the guy you want to hope to shoot like.
What do you see yourself doing in the future? Do you see yourself going out for the Olympic team or anything like that? That’s a good question. A lot of people ask me “If you’re on the US National Rifle Team, are you going to the Olympics?” Unfortunately, no. There is not an Olympic event for long range rifle shooting. I guess it’s just a land issue. Not too many countries can host 1,000 yard shooting because there’s so much land required.
But there is .22 Rimfire… There is .22. Now, I could get started in that, I could go that way, but right now as a college student I don’t really have the ability to do that. If someone wanted to buy me the equipment, get me started, I’d be all over it. The truth of the story is, in long range shooting there is a tremendous amount of skill needed on the shooter’s part just to break good shots. The people who win though, they don’t just break good shots, they break a lot of really good shots, and they call the wind better than anyone else.
If I go up to a 50 yard line shooting .22 against somebody, I’ve just taken away one of my huge advantages: my ability to know what’s happening with the wind. Will I do well? I might, I could probably learn it and do pretty well, but right now I’m excelling at doing well in long range shooting because of that added element. For some reason it’s something that I pick up intuitively. It’s really just a guessing game, reading the wind and deciding what it’s worth. If I start shooting in small bore or air rifle, I take away that advantage and then it just becomes an equipment game: who has the best equipment.
Then there’s controlling variables. You’re there [shooting small bore] as a shooter with all of your equipment, you want everything to be exactly the same. Whereas with long range shooting, I might be shooting in a mud puddle one week and the next week I’m shooting on concrete.
Those are some good points. Let’s move on and talk about Top Shot for a bit. What prompted you to apply to be a Top Shot contestant? A local friend that I shoot with in long range matches actually told me “Hey Kelly, I think you’d be great for this. You should audition for the show.” We both auditioned for it together, and oddly enough we were both picked for the top 50 selection.
We both went down there and they have whatever hoops they want us to jump through to see if we are qualified, and so they can pick who they want to be on the show. I kinda felt like I had it in the bag. When I went there I saw I was the youngest person, and I was the youngest by a couple of years. I went into an interview and I felt like I just did really well. I came out of the interview with people telling me they really liked me, they liked my attitude, and I had a lot of fun with it. I fully expected to get a call back a couple of weeks later to tell me that I’d be on the show.
And of course you did get that call. Did you do any particular training or preparation prior to your appearance? I didn’t do any training in preparation for Top Shot.
Other than your normal training routine? No, I did shoot a little bit with a .22 conversion kit on my 1911. About 50 rounds or so. But, without having an instructor, just going out and shooting by myself isn’t much in the way of training.
Still, you did take the time to re-familiarize yourself with handguns. I tried. I tried, now I was quite busy. I’m in electrical engineering at the University of Washington, and I actually had to finish a quarter of three classes at 300 level engineering two weeks early in order to be on the show. I had to take all of my finals early, turn in final projects early, and my professor wasn’t very cooperative. He wanted me to just fail all of my classes and retake them. So, I had quite a nightmare just even getting prepared to get on the show.
Once I finally finished everything and got on the plane to go down to LA I just breathed a big sigh of relief. I was just relieved, it was vacation time now.
You went into this just looking at the competition as a vacation? Yeah, when I’m here at home working, going to school, sleeping very very little, it’s kind of a grind. I’ve got a little bit left of engineering school and I’m paying for it with a part time job, so that doesn’t really leave a lot of time for sleep. When I found out I’d be in sunny California, no alarm clock to wake up to, be able to eat whatever the heck I want, I was really looking forward to it.
You know, that’s one thing that both Caleb and Denny mentioned was the inordinate amount of down time, long stretches where ya’ll really weren’t doing anything. There was a lot of down time. Which is why you see some of the shenanigans we got ourselves into. All the arguments and bickering, when you have 16 alpha personalities in a house and you don’t have music, you don’t have TV, stuff’s going to happen.
Did you go into the show with any particular strategy in mind? I thought I had a strategy, but as I continue to watch myself on TV I think I’m finding out I really don’t have a lot of tact sometimes.
You did seem to have the ability, for better or for worse, to be able to tick off just about anybody on the show. Yeah, I don’t know how I did that. I really am quite a nice guy, a lot of fun, but I guess I just had a way of getting under people’s skin sometimes.
How much do you think your lack of experience and young age played into people’s perceptions of you? I’d say that lack of experience, that’s just an excuse. Now my age? Sure, people definitely I’d almost say discriminated against me and singled me out because of my age. But I don’t think anyone could cite my experience as a reason to not like me or to single me out and vote for me. While I am young, I’ve been shooting quite a while and my intellect and natural talent allows me to pick things up maybe a little faster than the average person.
During the first elimination challenge you shot rifles and sent Mike Seeklander home. That was a pretty stunning defeat and seemed to surprise everybody. Do you think that their estimation of you went up after that? I think some people were surprised, but in my opinion I don’t see that they have begun to respect me anymore, seeing as how I just got thrown under the bus. Again. In the last two episodes.
That’s a good point. You’ve been on three elimination challenges so far, and it seems that a couple of your teammates may have it out for you. After the third elimination challenge, what’s your mindset like? I was a little shocked really. If you look at my face during the show you can see I’m just a very expressive person and I’m going to wear my emotions on my sleeve. You see just me being appalled, being angry, just leaving my team, walking over to be with the blue team, grabbing my Bible, just trying to relax. I was very appalled, I was very bewildered that Denny hadn’t stepped up or asked for some votes.
You know, that’s surprising, the last two episodes we saw Denny put in what are quite frankly poor performances, really not contributing anything to the team, and yet he’s not been sent to a single elimination challenge. Is it just his good looks and affable personality that have kept him safe? You know, I really couldn’t tell ya. I voted for him one episode ago, and I think the reason I voted for Brad is that I was looking at Denny and Brad in last night’s episode and I remember thinking that both of them hadn’t contributed anything to the team. But I saw that Brad had helped us even less. Not only did he miss all of the shots, but he talked us out of taking the aggressive strategy that really could have helped us win.
We really didn’t get a good idea of the alternate “aggressive” strategy. Can you fill us in? Sure. The “play it safe strategy” was what you saw. That helped us lose. The aggressive strategy was an attack plan and it would have gone like this: Denny would have shot the Annie Oakley shot. Apparently that’s something he does in his exhibition shooting, so it wouldn’t have been very difficult for him. Among the exhibition shots that was the easiest. In practice, Brad shot the smallest group with the Smith & Wesson .38. I think he even hit the little dot twice. I hit it once, Denny hit it once, and Peter never hit it.
How big were those dots? In practice, the dots were about quarter sized. I think we shot it from 8 yards. Not that hard to hit for an experienced pistol shooter. I believe the Smith & Wesson had pounds, 8 maybe 10 pounds trigger pull when you pull right through double action like that. One handed, that’s a tough feat.
But it’s not nearly as hard as shooting the nails. Oh no, no, I mean the targets we practiced with were 2-3 times as large as the nails. So then I would have shot the large cans we had thrown and Peter would have shot the small cans. Now in practice it only showed that Denny nicked a cabbage. I also nicked one in practice, Peter never did and I don’t think that Brad did either. But Peter and I did go out and practice with the Boccie balls for hours.
Yes, we saw you with J.J. and Peter practicing outside, and then later Tara, J.J. and Blake inside practicing with the water gun. Yeah, so we all got in a lot of practice but Brad, oddly enough, never came out and practiced with us with the Boccie balls. So, it wouldn’t have made sense really to have him shoot on the aerial target when he really only practiced it 5 times. We got I think 5 throws in practice.
So, the attack plan was Denny on the bottle, Brad shooting the nails, me shooting the large hand thrown cans and Peter shooting the smaller ones. Had we done that, who knows what would have happened, but I’ve got to think that if I had hit one of the small cans I probably could have hit two or three of the big ones. I think if anyone could have hit the small ones, and more than one of them, it would be Peter. He practiced throwing those Boccie balls for hours. I mean, he had that down pat.
During the soda can toss, you whispered “Just like practice” – what was going through your mind as you prepared for the shot? That’s just something I do. I like to put myself at ease any time before I take a shot that someone might view as a high pressure shot. If you had tested my blood pressure and heart rate right then and there it would have been low. I was calm, I was cool, I was collected. I was ready to take the shot, and I fully expected myself to hit it. The funny thing is, I said “just like practice” and in practice I only hit one out of five, so it really was just like practice.
The “just like practice” mantra is something I’ve done for a while. It’s something one of my coaches Gary Rasmussen taught us. When he’s at nationals he just tells himself “Ahhh… it’s just another cool day here on the practice range. Everyone knows, and you do it all the time, you go out to shoot practice and you shoot the best you’ve ever shot in your life. Then, lo and behold, you go out and you shoot a match and maybe you’re just not mentally there and you just goof up. It happens a lot. Everyone has done that.
It does seem like your mental attitude has really helped you through all of the elimination challenges you’ve been through. Do you think it’s just your mental attitude that has allowed you to be so successful? I do have a certain mental ability that I’ve kind of picked up and practiced and begun to get better at over the last year, year and a half, to kind of shut other things out while I’m actually shooting. I’ll be extremely nervous up until the point I’m actually shooting, extremely extremely nervous.
At the Beretta Xtrema challenge I got up to the line, and I’m way outside of my comfort zone holding this Beretta. I’ve fired it all of about 20 times now, and I got up there, I focused on what I need to do, and I make the shot. It all kind of goes away. What I do is I just repeat a mantra in my head. I just ask myself, “OK, what do I need to do to make this a perfect shot?” Then I tell myself over and over what I need to do. If I’m continually force feeding myself thoughts, good thoughts positive thoughts about what I need to do to make it perfect, I typically make very good shots.
That’s some really great advice there for anybody in any of the shooting disciplines. That’s right out of Lanny R. Bassham’s book “With Winning in Mind”. I read that a year and a half ago and it’s a great book.
You’d recommend that book to any competitive shooter? Definitely.
Let’s talk about the last elimination challenge against Brad. Did you have any shotgun experience prior to that? Well, I used to work at a shotgun range actually. My first real job when I was 15 I worked at a shotgun range. I used to leave my shotgun there and then go shoot some on lunch breaks. Now, I didn’t ever compete or anything-
Still, one could argue that gave you some advantage going into the last challenge. One could argue that, but I would argue in return that the shooting wasn’t really the difficult part of that challenge. Sure, it mattered, but the throw was really the difficult part and if you didn’t have the throw it didn’t matter how well you could shoot a shotgun.
For example in my last throw when I threw 5 birds, I had a particularly awful throw and one of the birds actually ran into the other right after it left my hand and broke. Once it breaks leaving your hand you’re not allowed to shoot it. So when that one broke, it made it so I couldn’t even shoot those. They were out of play because my throw was so bad.
We were given an allotted amount of time to practice. you have X minutes of practice or 25 rounds. I used like 80%-90% of my time with Scott Robertson, he was the expert, just practicing my throw. Because I knew that was what it was going to be all about, but they wouldn’t let us practice the throw while holding the gun. They wanted that to be something we’d never done before. They wanted to keep throwing us tricks and stuff. So that’s why when we went back to the house I grabbed the gun off the mantle, it was a little prop gun, and I went and grabbed the Boccie balls and went and threw Boccie balls up on a hillside to try to get a motion down. It was really all about the throw.
Did you ever let your guard down? After the elimination challenge, did you ever just stop and go “OK, now I’ve got a break”? Honestly, I was just excited I got to unpack my bags again. When they voted for me I was as much pissed that I was going to the elimination as I was pissed that I had to pack my bags again. That’s just frustrating…
…because you’ve done this three times now and you’ve had to pack and unpack every time- Yeah! Now granted, Brad had done it the same number of times; he went against Bill and he went against Frank. Brad and I both were packing our bags for the third time. It was just so aggravating. Mentally, you’re packing your bags, it’s just a sign of going home. So, you think “I’m packing my bags. Am I going to unpack them at home? Am I going to unpack them back here in the mansion later tonight? I don’t know.” It’s just very mentally draining.
That’s one thing Caleb mentioned was just how difficult it was to get mentally in the game what with the drama and the threat of getting sent home. Obviously with your ability to focus you’ve really been able to get in there and stick with it. Sure, so on the firing line it was a whole different story if you talk to me. But in the house? There’s a lot of drama, I’m even involved in it most of the time. I’m pissing people off left and right, inadvertently albeit. I’m making people angry here or there, but get me on the firing line put a firearm in my hands and I’m going to forget about all of that, I’m going to focus on what I need to do to make a perfect shot.
And and the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter what drama or interpersonal conflicts are going on. If you simply show up and continue to out shoot everybody and make those perfect shots, you’ll go right on until the end. Yeah, you know that’s the theory. Chris on the blue team actually said, “Kelly, if I was you I wouldn’t even shoot for the team any more. I’d put my bullets in the dirt.”
And for a second that seems for a second, that seems like a vengeful “these guys are out to get me” tactic that might work. I’m not a vengeful person, but for a second or two something like that really seems like an attractive idea. Now, it’s not something I could do, I’m much more sportsman-like than that, and I think that’s been shown. But it would be hilarious.
Well, thanks for taking the time to talk to us about your experience in the shooting sports and for giving us some insights into Top Shot. Hopefully we’ll get to talk again after you’ve won the $100,000 grand prize. I sure hope so, and no comment on who won.
Kelly Bachand is a college student attending University of Washington where he is studying electrical engineering. He competes in Palma rifle competitions and is currently a member of the US National Rifle Team.
It’s hard to miss his big cowboy hat and wide grin. Denny Chapman is quite the character, and if you hadn’t heard of him before now, you’ve probably seen him on the new reality TV show “Top Shot” on the History Channel.
Denny was kind enough to take a few minutes out of his day to talk to us about his background in the shooting sports and how he came upon the cowboy mounted shooting sports.
Tell me Denny: did you start out as a horseman or as a shooter? I was probably shooting before I was riding. In fact, I’m sure I was. I grew up in southern Illinois in the Midwest. I definitely had my hands on a gun before a horse. I was brought up in a rural area, a very small town of about 800 people called Cambria. I grew up hunting and fishing. My dad and my Grandfather brought me up shooting. In our family, guns were common and typical. A tool.
You’ve been around firearms your whole life, growing up with them. Yeah. A gun was no different than a hammer or a screwdriver to me when I was a kid.
So I guess it was a natural transition to combine shooting and horses, having grown up in the country and already knowing how to shoot. Yeah, I would say exactly so. When I was old enough to start chasing girls most of the girls were horse crazy, and I soon found out I liked them too, so-
The girls or the horses? {laughs} Well, I never stopped liking the girls but I soon found out I liked the horses as well. It was a natural thing for me to pick up horses as a hobby.
You didn’t get started riding until you were in your teenage years then? Exactly, about 13 years of age.
Tell me a little bit about that. How did you find out that you had a natural talent for it, and when did you decide to start integrating shooting into it? Well, it was an evolution of many years actually. It wasn’t until about 1999 when I discovered the sport of cowboy mounted shooting. The Cowboy Mounted Shooting Association didn’t come about until the early 90s. It was kinda’ isolated to the Western United States, you had to stumble on it out in Arizona in the Scottsdale Phoenix area. It was very small. The first world championships were just a handful of people.
By 1999 I was competing in IDPA and USPSA, IPSC, I had already-
Let me stop you for a second there. You were already competing in action shooting when you discovered cowboy mounted shooting? Correct. I had already competed in probably half a dozen different organized shooting disciplines before I discovered mounted shooting. And I was a horseman already. I mean I was a cowboy per se, I was team roping and competing in quarter horse association sanctioned events like Working Cow Horse and Versatility Ranch Horse, and doing all the things a cowboy should be able to do on his horse.
My IPSC partner, Gary Stevens, was in Kentucky at the time and Gary was a retired Kentucky State Trooper. We were traveling to matches together. He had heard about mounted shooting before I did and he said “Man, you need to look into this mounted shooting stuff, it’s right up your alley. You’re already a cowboy, it’d be a great transition.” So, I got online and started searching. Lo and behold I found a small CMSA club in central Kentucky. I called ‘em right away and said “Hey, I want to come and see what this is like,” and they said “Yeah, we’re having an organized practice match. Come on down.”
So, I went down there. Now I knew they were using blanks because I’d researched them a bit online before I went down there. For those who don’t know, Cowboy Mounted Shooting is a sport that combines marksmanship and horsemanship. The marksmanship end of it uses a single action cowboy revolver such as a Colt Peacemaker or a replica of a single action Army Colt shooting .45 Long Colt blanks. The brass is crimped shut with just the powder only. The burning embers of powder then burst the balloon out to about 15 feet before the shot dissipates. It has a little bit of spread to it similar to a shotgun, but not much, you still have to maintain that specific degree of accurracy…
Just like one would aim a shotgun, right? Yeah, because you’re runnin’ by the target on a horse as fast as you can, you want to aim as close the target as you possibly can. It’s not as easy as it looks. Especially once you climb up on a horse and go running around trying to do it.
This is a timed event, correct? It is a timed event, so when you cross the timer line the timer starts, it’s just like a barrel race with guns. Except there are sixty some-odd different patterns you’re shooting. Five targets with one gun, five with another, and the hammer rests on an empty chamber.
So you don’t do reloads, you actually carry two separate guns? That’s right, we shoot five targets with one gun, holster, draw the other gun, and shoot the last five. There’s a lot to think about. Not only the riding, the shooting, but the gun change. The horsemanship, the horse that is, is probably 75% of the sport. Then, for every missed target you get a 5 second penalty.
If you miss a target then, you can pretty much write off any chance you had of winning that competition?Yes, absolutely. You have to shoot clean. I’m a level 5 and it only goes to level 6. If you’re comparing it to USPSA I’d be like a Master class level shooter.
I’ve done so many shooting sports, and been on a horse for a decade and this is still the most fun I’ve ever had. I feel as strongly today about the sport as the first day I climbed up on a horse. It’s hard to explain the exhilaration you feel. I’ve been in IPSC, USPSA, and various run and gun competitions, I’ve been in 3-gun and I loved it it’s great, but I pretty much gave it all up for mounted shooting because the horses took up so much extra time for the training. It eventually became a business for me. I’m the go-to-guy in the southeastern United States for mounted shooting horse training. It probably makes up about 75% of what I do for a living, just desensitizing and training horses.
I’m glad you brought up that topic because I’m sure we’ve got some people wondering about safety and how you train a horse to do this. Obviously you’ve got a working firearm which can be dangerous or even deadly and you’ve got very loud noises around horses which have incredibly sensitive ears. Tell me a bit about how you train a horse and what kind of safety equipment they use.
We’ve been pretty lucky throughout the last decade or so to come up with a pretty good plan of action. First off, we use ear plugs with the horses. They have ear plugs that are a soft neoprene rubber. They get rid of a lot of noise. I really don’t know what the NRR (noise reduction rating) is on them but I would say it’s probably similar to something in the 20-25 db noise reduction rating.
So, we start them with that. You know, the horse training is difficult and it’s time consuming but it’s something I really enjoy. I found out quickly that we get much better results when we introduce the noise and the smoke very slowly. So, I would start out shooting primer loads around them and work my way up. Sometimes I find a horse, and I can evaluate them pretty quick to find out if I need to stay light on them before I can step it up. I might have a horse for 60 days that I just shoot primers from their back.
That’s got to be difficult to get a horse that you can control well. Many people don’t understand that it’s really a marriage, and you and the horse have to come to an understanding and an agreement to get the horse to do what you want it to do. With IDPA and IPSC, you basically go out on the course and shoot it how you want to shoot it. You can’t exactly do that with mounted shooting. Talk to me about how important it is to get that bond with the horse, where the horse can perform as well as you can. It’s a time consuming chore. The most important thing is that the horse has the proper training first. We don’t just get on a horse that’s never been ridden before. The first thing that I do when someone drops a horse off with me for training is to evaluate the horse’s knowledge and the horse’s confidence in me as the handler and the rider. If the horse isn’t properly trained, I finish their training before I ever attempt to make any noise. Once the horse has the “handle” that I feel is safe for the rider, in other words the horse has to walk when I ask him to move, turn right, turn left, and he has to neck rein because we’re riding with one hand, move off laterally off my leg…
So you do use some cutting horse training to get them to move with leg pressure? Yeah, that’s a good point. The horse needs to be able to do everything a good working ranch horse can do. The horse needs to move off it’s haunches, doesn’t necessarily need to do a spin but it does need to do all those things a versatile ranch horse does because we’re negotiating through patterns. They need to be able to move like a good cutting horse. Once that “handle” is on the horse and I’m satisfied with it, then we introduce the horse to the world of mounted shooting. We desensitize them to the balloons, we have to be able to ride the horse up to the balloons, pick them up and set them down, and we’ll pop it in front of them. The noise is obviously a major thing…
And even the smell of the burnt gun powder I imagine… Absolutely. I’ve got a great video on WesternShootingHorse.com right now. I shoot for Taylor’s & Company Firearms, who are importers of Colt clones made by Uberti. Taylor and I have even designed a couple of new guns for us, specifically for our sport, which I’m particularly proud of.
It’s a process though. We get that “handle” on the horse first, then we start the noise training and all that’s involved with that and put it all together. You know, if a horse has a pretty good handle on them when they come to me, I can turn them back over to their owner in 30-60 days and have them have confidence.
Moving on, one thing I always ask all of the competitive shooters we interview is “How do you train?” What does a normal week of training look like? Do you take the horse out everyday, do you focus more on riding and getting that kinship with the horse or do you focus on shooting? How much shooting practice do you actually do? I do very little shooting in my training, but I give a lot of lessons and do a lot of clinics. As I’m demonstrating to my students the foundation techniques and things I need to do to be successful, I get to reinforce my own training. I literally give lessons three or four days a week at the ranch here. I’m on a horse while I’m teaching, I’ve got my rig on so I can demonstrate, say if my students are having difficulty with a gun change, or the proper draw, or some aspect of marksmanship. I can demonstrate that or the horsemanship. So essentially I’m getting a lot of personal training and reinforcement as I’m teaching, and I literally don’t have a lot of time to practice, so I have to take advantage of my teaching time to reinforce my skills. I’m very blessed and fortunate to be making a large part of my living through the sport, unfortunately it does take up a large part of my time and I have to be disciplined about it. If I decide that I’m not going to give a series of lessons, maybe I have two or three students a day, if I decide I’m going to take a day off of teaching and just train, I have to be willing to give up that part of my income. I very rarely do that because quite honestly I enjoy the teaching just as much as I enjoy participating in the sport.
And yet you do have to maintain some level of proficiency as a sponsored shooter as well as to maintain your ranking as a level 5 shooter, correct? I certainly do, and so it is important for me to consistently get to matches, perform well, and earn points in the ,World Points Qualifier. I’m already qualified for the World Championships, but since I’m a professional shooter it looks good to my sponsors. I want to keep them happy and show that I’m still serious about the sport. I don’t have to win all the time but I need to be there and maintain my good reputation, and while I’m there I’m promoting their products and their guns. I have a holster sponsor, Rod Kiblear Saddlery out of Alto Georgia who sponsors my gun rig and my rifle scabbard, I’m also a very successful mounted rifle shooter. Actually I enjoy the mounted rifle shooting as much, maybe even a little bit more than just the basic mounted shooting with the revolvers.
With the rifle, are you still shooting blanks? Yes, we’re firing 5-in-1 type blanks. They’ve got a little bit extra range. In the rifle shooting we still engage five targets with one revolver, but we’re drawing the rifle as we turn barrel and shooting the last five targets at a dead run as we’re coming home. No reins, we’re just steering from our seat and our legs, with both hands on the rifle. It’s really exhilarating. I’ve been doing it for ten years and the hair stands up on my neck just talking to you about it.
It certainly sounds exciting. Let’s talk about Top Shot for a bit here. What would prompt a horseman and a mounted shooter to want to apply to a reality TV show? I mean you’re an entertainer as well, but what exactly was your thinking going into this? I first saw the ad for Top Shot as a banner ad on the Cowboy Mounted Shooting Association website for the casting call. I was immediately intrigued by it. I’m a self employed wild west entertainer and mounted shooter and long ago I realized the importance of promotion and publicity. That was a big factor in my decision to apply for the show. I knew that just my appearance on the show would result in increased visibility for the Cowboy Mounted Shooting Association, for myself, for my sponsors, and not to mention there was the $100,000 on the line. Who couldn’t use $100,000?
But you know, I really wasn’t there for the money. I was really there for this once in a lifetime opportunity to shoot a bunch of weapons using somebody else’s ammo, get on national TV and get some exposure, have a good time and create memories that money can’t buy. And I made some good friends doing it.
We’ve already interviewed Caleb Giddings and that’s one thing that he brought up was that it wasn’t just the shooting and the chance to win the money but it was just an incredible experience and the chance to meet a bunch of other top level shooters. How was it for you walking in to be among the likes of J.J. Racaza and Blake and some of these nationally known top ranked shooters? I wasn’t intimidated I was excited. I’m used to a lot of pressure, I’m used to being the center of attention, I’ve done some media work prior to this and been in a few TV commercials, and I’ve been in the Western Shooting Horse Video Magazine. So the cameras and all that stuff didn’t intimidate me. The guys didn’t intimidate me, but I was just excited to be in the same group house with these guys, I knew I was going to be on the same range with them, shoot guns with them, and I just wanted to see how I’d stack up against them. I was very excited.
With the exception of the last episode with the single action revolvers and the shooting gallery, we’ve seen you kinda hanging in the background so far, which is presumably a good thing since it means that you’ve avoided any elimination challenges and any drama or friction with other team members. How do you feel your affable personality has helped you? You know, I never was much for drama. How many cowboys do you know who are drama fans? {laughs} You know, when I went on the show I decided I was just going to be myself. I’m not going to act, I’m not there to be an actor or to do anything unnatural or anything I wouldn’t normally do. I was just myself.
Here recently there was some drama between Caleb and Adam and it was so unnecessary. It made me uncomfortable. You don’t expect grown men to act like that.
And yet the drama is still an integral part of the game. We do have Colby hosting the show, he was on Survivor, and the personality conflicts and drama there really kind of made up that entire show, so you had to know going in that there would have been some drama. Did you have any tactics or strategies going into it as to how you would handle something should it come up? You know, I figured they would cast a couple of guys for their personalities for their potential for conflict. But no, I had no tactics or plans for how to react to anything like that or any kind of strategies, or any strategies at all for that matter. I didn’t form any alliances. I guess a lot of people are telling me “Hey, you’re flying under the radar,” but I’m just not a big fan of drama or going over the top on things. You know, I got a feeling that they cast the different teams on purpose that way. If you notice now, most of us red team guys, we don’t have a team leader and we don’t think that it’s necessary at this time. I think they kinda’ cast us that way on purpose, red team and blue team. We’re kinda’ the underdog, the red team, because there are fewer of us. I consider myself friends with all of those guys. Obviously I get along with some of the blue guys. I was sad to see Caleb go. He went out very classy and dignified.
Going into the show, did you do any special training? You’re going to get a kick out of my answer. Here it comes. {laughs} I hadn’t shot live ammo in about 10 years before I went on the show. I literally hadn’t shot anything other than a little bit of .22 rimfire just fooling around.
I did find myself time to shoot a recurve bow with a friend and I did some cardio training, to kinda get in shape, and that’s about it. I knew that it might affect my performance to an extent, but so far so good.
Quite frankly, I just didn’t have that much time. I had a lot of obligations to my students and to some mounted shooting competitions. I literally flew into LA the day after I competed in the Atlantic Classic Cowboy Mounted Shooting Association competition. I had obligations, and you know that’s the kinda guy I am. I’m pretty comfortable just backing up the truck to the horse trailer, hooking up and going to a match on the spur of the moment. I enjoy things like that. Maybe it’s the cowboy in me but it’s what I like to do.
Now I didn’t go in there and tell my red team buddies, “By the way guys, I haven’t shot live ammunition in 10 years,”
You just kept that little tidbit underneath your hat? I sure did.
This most recent episode featured single action revolvers. I know you had to have been really looking forward to that challenge. Of course, my sport really revolves around that specific type of weapon. You can see the smile on my face when we walk up to practice. What cowboy isn’t going to be happy to walk up there and see a Colt single action revolver sitting up there?
And yet, you seemed to struggle right out of the gate in the team challenge. What happened? You know, I definitely had a hard time. It was a tough one for us. I really wanted to lead off strong for us.
I guess I gave a little more credit to my mounted shooting experience and thought it would translate to shooting live ammo there in the competition. I was sure that at some point in the competition we were going to shoot cowboy guns of some type, whether it be something like a Colt Peacemaker or a ‘73 Winchester or something. And even though I’ve never shot any live ammo out of my cowboy guns, I thought I had some pretty good basic skills with the other firearms that I have shot live ammo out of. I don’t know, I guess the combination of the pressure of the competition and my lack of experience didn’t help much.
That day seemed very cold and wet. How much did weather play into the performance We spent about 20 minutes jogging around off camera just trying to warm up while they were resetting targets between blue and red. It was really cold. You saw a lot of the competitors shivering and shaking, it was that could.
Do you feel that played into your performance some? Nah, I’m not really going to say it did, no. Once we got going our adrenalin was going, we didn’t really feel the cold so much once we started. I can’t make that excuse.
I’m sure you were disappointed after the red team loss, and it was apparent that many on your team seemed let down. This challenge really played to your strong suit, but you still struggled. I think a lot of them thought I was a cowboy action shooter. I think because of my image a lot of them expected me to perform like a cowboy action shooter. [That episode] obviously showed that I’m not. I’m not a cowboy action shooter. I’d never shot live ammunition out of any cowboy guns prior to Top Shot, and unfortunately that was detrimental to my performance.
The first time I’d ever shot live ammo out of a Single Action Colt Army was when they called the top 50 out to narrow it down to the 16.
How did the recoil compare to the blanks you’re used to? There’s no recoil when we shoot our blanks.
This was markedly different then? Oh yeah. Whole different ballgame. You know, if I’d have been smart I’d have probably tried to get a feel what live ammo felt like out of those cowboy guns.
After the team event you pretty much turned to your team gathered in the kitchen of the house and told them “Hey, I screwed up, send me to the elimination challenge,” but they didn’t do that. Do you feel you should have been sent to the elimination challenge instead of Andre? You seemed to say as much, and yet it was Andre and Kelly that were voted in. Yeah, I was surprised. I’m glad I wasn’t sent to the elimination challenge. But you know, that wasn’t something that was really in my control. Adam and Chris both said that I should have demanded it. Adam played a lot of games and he tried to manipulate me a bit and I tried real hard not to let him.
I tried to stay on a steady even keel and not get caught up in [the drama] and Adam was trying to catch me up in it. My Top Shot watching party goers last night told me I shouldn’t have even acknowledged him. But it’s not like me to just duck out on a question all together. I’ve got to acknowledge him and answer his questions.
I don’t know, I felt bad enough coming right back from the nomination range and when Adam said “Well why didn’t you demand that you go,” I still had a bad taste in my mouth from Adam demanding to go against Caleb in the whole terrible “rat fink” scenario. Honestly, I didn’t even want to acknowledge Adam, but I felt it was the right thing to do and the gentlemanly thing to do.
Well, thanks for taking the time to talk with us. I hope to interview you again after you’ve won the $100,000 prize on Top Shot. Is there anything else you’d like to add?
First, I’d like to give a big “Thank you” to all of my Facebook fans. After the episode last night, I got literally hundreds of emails and messages of encouragement, and that really meant a lot to me.
I would also like to plug a couple of things. I just want to mention a couple of guns I helped design for Taylor’s & Company Firearms. The guns I helped design for them are the Runnin’ Iron. It’s the latest greatest mounted shooting revolver on the market and I’m proud to have helped design that for Taylor’s and Company. These are firearms custom designed from the ground up for cowboy mounted shooting, we’re finding that the cowboy action shooters are liking them for what we call “ground shooting” as well.
The rifle I helped design is called the Runnin’ Comanchero, it’s a companion to the Runnin’ Iron, based on the ‘73 Winchester and customized for the sport of mounted shooting. We shorten the barrel and use a short stroke action job, it’s awesome. It’s just now hit the stores and I’ll be shooting mine for the first time this weekend.
Well we hope you do well. Thanks. And if anyone wants to check out some video and see what mounted shooting is all about I have a really neat point of view video where you can see me running the course with the hat cam. And you can see more information at DennyChapman.com where I’ve got a bunch more videos and pictures along with a schedule of appearances. My sponsor, Taylor’s and Company, and of course we want to mention the Cowboy Mounted Shooting Association.
Thanks so much for your time. No problem, and I hope to speak with you again soon.
Denny Chapman is a professional announcer, equine entertainer, trainer and clinician. Denny has served as clinician and performer for many major fairs and equine events including Equine Affaire in Columbus OH and the Can-Am Equine Emporium in Ontario, Canada. He has entertained at professional sporting events and has also served as the featured performer in the famous Kentucky Horse Park’s “Best of the West” show. Denny has been featured in numerous television and radio commercials, horse and western-lifestyle magazines, promotional videos and various other media productions. He is known for his “singing cowboy,” voice-over and event announcing work and is an experienced equine technical advisor with direct experience in handling more than 40 breeds of horses. He is a sought-after clinician and guest speaker at horse fairs, training clinics and schools around the country. Denny is sponsored by Suncoast Bedding, Straight Arrow Co’s MANE N TAIL products, Impact Gel Saddle Pads, and Taylor’s & Company Firearms. Learn more about Denny at DennyChapman.com
If you’ve been following the reality TV shot “Top Shot” on the History channel, you probably saw that Caleb Giddings was eliminated after going head to head against Adam Benson following a drama filled episode. Caleb was gracious enough to take a few minutes and talk to us about his experience and give us some insights into the show.
Cheaper Than Dirt: So, it’s come to this. I was really hoping to interview you again and congratulate you on your win, but it appears that was not to be.
Caleb Giddings: Ya know, these things happen. That’s the nature of the game I suppose.
Cheaper Than Dirt: It is a game after all. Obviously there was some game playing in between episodes between you and Adam. Adam had to know that you were good friends with Blake and JJ. What was he thinking?
Caleb Giddings: I don’ think that Adam realized just how close Blake and I actually were, despite the amount of time that we spent hanging out together. I think that he thought that I was just in it to play the game.
During the show, Adam said that he intended to “manipulate” you. Did you feel that Adam intentionally set you up, knowing that you might tell Blake and JJ of the conspiracy? I don’t think that he set it up for me to come across like a rat. I think that Adam’s plan was to see where I fit in with the voting bloc and when I told my friend that someone was conspiring against him he was surprised that he got his hand caught in the cookie jar and reacted… well, you saw how he reacted
I think every one watching the show knows how he reacted. Let’s talk about the Flintlock rifles for a bit. You’ve got some experience with these types of firearms, is that correct? I do. I shot a lot of muzzleloading rifles when I was much younger, back in high school. A friend of mine who was very much a into the muzzle loading community and I would shoot a lot of caplocks and flintlocks and that sort of thing. I have a very great passion for muzzleloaders, it’s just not something that I shoot very often anymore because most of my time is consumed with action pistol shooting.
Do you still own a flintlock? Or muzzleloader? You know, I used to but I sold it when I finished up college. I haven’t actually had one for quite some time.
So you went into this event a bit rusty. Yeah, I would definitely say I had let the flintlock and muzzleloading skills atrophy, and there is a huge difference between shooting a modern firearm and shooting a muzzleloding flintlock or a caplock. With a flintlock as you saw in the episode there is that long ignition time. It doesn’t feel that long when you’re actually shooting the gun, but there’s a huge difference in lock time between a flintlock and, say, a modern 9mm pistol.
And you don’t see that lag on a modern muzzleloading firearms? No, modern muzzleloading inline firearms use a much more efficient ignition system. They use higher volume caps, modern blackpowder substitute powders, so you will have a longer ignition time with a modern muzzleloader, but it won’t be anything like what you saw with a flintlock using traditional blackpowder.
You obviously felt pretty confident going into the team challenge, even going so far as to volunteer to take the most accurate shot. Do you regret that decision? Not one bit. I knew that with the rifle we had practiced with that I knew exactly where I needed to hold for a 125 yard shot and it would have just been of putting the sights on target and pressing the trigger. I would have been pretty confident with the results I would have gotten.
Now, they switched out rifles because the first flintlock was having some pretty serious problems with misfires, and you didn’t have a chance to practice with the replacement, right? That’s correct. The replacement was the expert’s rifle, Gary James. Everyone in the shooting community knows him, he’s an editor for Guns and Ammo, and just a really all around great guy.
I have to talk for a minute about the rifle he brought with him. That was, that rifle was a work of art. According to Gary I believe it was about a $15,000 handmade rifle, and it exemplifies the artistry and the attention to detail that goes into a truly custom weapon. I still just cannot thank him enough for letting us shoot that beautiful rifle. It was phenomenal.
Now that you’ve talked it up a bit, do you think that shooting that rifle affected how your shot went off? It absolutely did. Just because, I didn’t have the opportunity to practice with the rifle. The big difference when you’re shooting a muzzleloading rifle, or any rifle with fixed sights, is that you don’t know how much the bullet is going to drop at a given distance based on the sight picture.
So, using that rifle and using some of the information I’d gathered from my teammates, I just estimated the elevation and took the shot. Obviously I didn’t estimate well enough because I missed low on the target apparently.
Was it at least the same caliber as the initial rifle? Yes, the caliber was the same. The thing about a muzzleloading rifle is that there are so many variables that go into the flight of the bullet. Everything from bullet is placed on the patch, to the way it’s inserted into the bore, how much powder is inserted in, and the length of the barrel also affects the rifle. Generally muzzleloaders had such long barrels back in the day to make more efficient use of the powder. The barrel on Gary’s rifle was much longer than the barrel on the rifle we’d originally been using. So, it stood to reason that it would have a higher muzzle velocity as it would burn more powder as the bullet traveled down that barrel.
So you’ve got a different rifle, with a different personality, with sights that you’re not sure of, and a longer barrel which will give you a higher muzzle velocity. Can you say that if you shot the rifle you practiced with that the shot might have been on target? I believe that if I had been able to take the shot with the rifle that I practiced with that I would have definitely put it on the target. That being said, there’s no way to know that for sure, which is kind of the fun thing about all of this because it’s a lot of speculation.
I had felt very confident with my practice shots, with how the rifle had performed and with where I needed to aim to get the hit, so I do believe given the same rifle I would have made the shot. Now, I’m not trying to blame my equipment because even with that rifle it’s still a makable shot. It just made it more difficult-
Well, the purpose of the show is to feature marksmen who are able to pick up anything and be proficient with it. Absolutely. One of the things that was missed in my exit interview was that a truly great all around marksman can pick up any rifle and make difficult shots with it. I didn’t do that on the day that I missed that 125 shot. It’s unfortunate. I’ve got to tell you I would love to have another crack at that.
Do you think that, assuming you had the chance to do it all over again, if you had performed better on the team challenge, even if your team still lost, that it would have resulted in somebody else going to the elimination challenge against Adam? It’s hard to tell, there are so many variables that went into that elimination challenge vote that you don’t see in the episode. The episode did a great job of encapsulating the personality conflict between Adam and myself and that was a huge factor in who went in to the elimination challenge. I also said, and this was not in the episode, that “I missed the 125 yard shot, I had an opportunity to tie things up for my team and I let them down, so I should be in the elimination challenge.” And I welcomed that opportunity to take that shot at redeeming myself.
You felt that, based solely on your performance, that you should go to the elimination challenge. Absolutely. When you watch the episode you saw Chris talking about how I was the ringer on the muzzleloader. I had the expectation that I was going to be able to make that shot, and when it came down to it I didn’t. And you’re only as good as the last shot you fired.
Presumably you had to nominate yourself to be the ringer, so you kinda put yourself in the position of having the whole team ride on your shot. I did, absolutely. And again, I have no regrets about that. I believed at the time that I could have made the shot and unfortunately I wasn’t able to do it so I earned my spot in that elimination challenge.
You mentioned on the show that your head wasn’t exactly in the game. You know, it’s honestly hard to look back at that, because it was 3 or 4 months ago now, and tell you how much that mental aspect affected me. I can tell you it obviously did, because the whole team did not perform up to our usual standards. I think that had we not had all that team drama going on we would have done much better in the challenge, been more focused and get better hits.
Talk to me a bit about the distances you were shooting at. The TV makes it very difficult for viewers to see how far away from the targets you are during the various challenges. Some of them are obvious, like the flint lock challenge we’re shown the various targets and told that the farthest one, the one you shot at, was 125 yards away. But in other challenges like the lever action challenge I don’t recall being told how far away the rope actually was. It looked like you were reasonably able to get shots on the target, so it couldn’t have been too far.
Looking back on it I would say that that rope was no more than 7 yards away-
So it was actually very close… I want to say 7 yards sounds right, but that’s just me guesstimating through memory about how far away it was.
But that really shows how difficult the shot was, to have it that close and still run through that many rounds. It is a tremendously difficult shot. That piece of rope we were shooting at was maybe an inch wide, and you’re trying to hit it with a bullet that is less than a half an inch wide. When you add up those two variables it definitely is not an easy shot to make.
Looking back on it now, what I wish I would have done is slowed down. I ran the 73 winchester like it was a cowboy action match, loading fast and slamming bullets fast. With 20-20 hindsight, if I had slowed down and taken much more precise shots I probably could have severed that rope a lot quicker.
Now, on to the challenge itself. You got your first three shots down range and reloaded before Adam. Did you change your strategy or point of aim to help get a shot that would connect? Actually, I didn’t. What I had done during the practice, and I know this sounds crazy. During the practice I saw that we were shooting ladder rungs, I just had this crazy suspicion in my head that we were going to do the rope shot. We had Winchesters and we were shooting at these inch wide ladder rungs. I just had this sneaking suspicion in my gut that we were going to end up doing the rope shot.
In the practice I actually shot the sides of the ladder, the vertical rungs, to establish the windage of the gun. It was actually dead on right over the front sight. So, when we got to the challenge and we were shooting a vertical rope I just held right in the middle of the rope and tried not to mash on the trigger. Obviously with the speed that I was trying to run the gun at was not conducive to the accuracy that I needed.
Had you ever shot that style of lever action before? Like a ‘94 Winchester or something like that? Yeah, I have shot some lever guns a little bit.
So it wasn’t something completely new to you. No, it’s a familiar platform. I believe those were Navy Arms replicas that we were shooting, which are pretty top of the line. On that gun, the lever was silk, the gun was extremely accurate, and just very easy to shoot. They’re generally extremely forgiving and easy to shoot weapons.
What did you do to keep the elevation the same? How did you make sure that your point of aim was the same from shot to shot to make each round hit the rope in the same spot? Once I actually got a hit on the rope, I knew that the rifle was a 6 o’clock hold, so I just held the front sight right under that first cut in the rope and put the rest of the bullets on target there. Though obviously I didn’t get the out quite as effectively as I needed to.
Did you get any indication who the rest of the team was rooting for at the elimination challenge? Not really, I honestly couldn’t tell. It’s funny, when I was actually up there shooting I couldn’t hear the rest of the team cheering. I was only peripherally aware of Adam’s shots. I would occasionally hear Colby yell “someone got a hit,” I wasn’t honestly paying too much attention to it. It was just me and the rifle and my sights and the rope. I wasn’t aware of the cheering and clapping that was going on in the background until I actually saw the episode and saw how close it was between the two of us.
So, you weren’t aware at all of how Adam was doing? After he got the first hit on the rope, did you realize that? When Adam got his first hit on the rope I heard Colby say that he had hit his rope and then I hit my rope within a couple of shots after that. After that it was a blur until I saw the guillotine start to slide down.
Tell me what was going through your mind when Adam severed his rope and the weight dropped, blocking any further shots. “Crap, I lost!” {laughs} That was the extent of it. The next thing that went through my mind was “Wow, he really shot well.” I never at any juncture in any of this had an axe to grind with Adam. Obviously I didn’t think that the personal attacks and name calling was cool, but I wasn’t upset at him or just out to get him or anything like that.
I was really impressed with how well he shot and the accuracy of the fire that he put out. He definitely put out much more accurate fire than I did. I definitely proved the old adage “You can’t miss fast enough to catch up.”
The drama definitely put an interesting spin on things, with previous elimination challenges it was mostly just a head to head match up over who was the better shooter. I know you’ve talked about wanting to go up against the best and see how you fared. Do you feel like you got that opportunity, or do you feel cheated at all that so much drama played a role in this? I don’t feel cheated by the drama. Obviously I wish that the drama hadn’t happened because I would have loved to make it to the eventual point where we are one team and we’re all competing as individuals.
I would have loved to see how I would have stacked up against J.J. or Blake, not necessarily with a pistol but with whatever the producers would throw at us. And while I would have loved to have gotten that opportunity when it comes down to it I did go to Top Shot to shoot, I got the opportunity to shoot, and when it came down to it I lost fair and square. I’m extremely happy with my experience.
One thing that strikes me about the show is how they focus on a marksman being a person who can pick up virtually any projectile weapon, go into a situation they have no knowledge about, and be reasonably proficient with it. That’s an enormously difficult task, and the difficulty that some of the contestants had with the challenges really reflects that. What did you learn about having the ability to pick up any firearm and being able to be effective with it? One of the big lessons I learned is that when it comes to firearms, we’ll leave out bows and arrows, knife throwing or any of the other stuff, but when you’re shooting guns ultimately the fundamentals of shooting apply no matter what you’re doing. Sight alignment and trigger control are always going to be important. It’s just a matter of, sometimes you’re trying to do it fast, sometimes you’re trying to do it slow, and sometimes you’re trying to get a good balance of the two. It was very illuminating to me to have that opportunity.
One of the things I really liked about it is that there is never any better opportunity to compare yourself to shooters who are better than you are. Lots of guys will say, “Oh, you know, I’ll compare myself to shooters in my class,” but if you do that you’ll only end up being a big fish in a little pond. The only way to really know how good you are is to try to shoot against guys who are bigger than you. That’s why I go to Bianchi cup, and that’s I go to Top Shot, I want to see where I stack up next to the guys who are better than me. On Top Shot, I had that opportunity and I learned that there are some areas I need to improve in.
Now that you’ve been on the show, are you implementing any changes in your training based off of what you learned from being a contestant? Right now I am trying to focus a little bit more on accuracy in my training and in my practice. When I started my shooting career at the Coast Guard academy I was a tremendously accurate shooter, I was a bullseye shooter, and I did very well in the ‘01 Sectionals and some other matches. Since then I’ve let that foundation of accuracy slack off a little bit in favor of speed, and I’m looking to try to get some of that back. I focus a lot more on accuracy in my practice lately.
What did you take away from the experience with regards to competitive shooting? I think what I took away with regards to competitive shooting in general is that the most important thing you can do to be successful as a competitive shooter is mindset. It’s got nothing to do with your trigger control, nothing to do with your sight picture, it’s having the right mindset and the right frame of mind when you’re going into a competition. If you’re rattled, if you’re not focused, if you’re not thinking clearly when you’re getting ready to shoot that shot, it will have an effect on that shot and it will have an effect on your ability to win that competition.
The other thing that I learned is, don’t go into a competition expecting to win. This is something that is a kinda zen thing I picked up from the Brian Enos guys is that, don’t ever go into a competition expecting to win, but go in expecting only to perform as well as you can. When you go in expecting to win, you’ve probably already failed. That was kind of a good thing for me to learn, and it really took the Top Shot experience to really drive that home for me.
I guess, being surrounded by so many top level shooters, you’re kinda forced into the mindset of “You can only do what you can do.” Absolutely. It teaches you the very concept of going out to do your best, and when your best isn’t enough, you learn to do better. And that’s the expectation that you should have going into these competitions.
That’s something that I’m trying to carry with me now into the regular competitive shooting of IDPA and Steel Challenge, is I want to shoot to the best of my ability with no expectation of victory or anything like that. That will help keep the mental butterflies away as well.
I think that’s a great idea for a way to identify areas for improvement. If you come out of a match going “Well, I’m just not as fast as Dave Sevigny,” you’re not going to learn anything from that. If you go into there, shoot your best, and then identify where you fell short and where there’s room for improvement, then you’ve got a starting point. I agree with that 100%. The best way to diagnose yourself is to shoot against people who are better than you and not have any expectations of your performance going into the match. Then you can be honest and you can be clinical with yourself your breakdown of your performance.
Thanks for taking the time to follow up with us regarding your experience on Top Shot, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t bring up the HAVA auction. You just successfully auctioned off a Sig Sauer 1911 with the Crimson Trace Laser Grips That’s correct, yeah the Sig 1911 went first and that was $1,200 right there, and currently up for auction is the Mossberg M590A1 at Gunbroker and that’s currently going for $400, although I haven’t checked it since this morning so that may have changed.
But for people who thought the Sig was a little too pricey, the Mossberg is much more cost effective, and you can never have too many 12 gauge shotguns.
That’s true, you know I own a Remington 870 and I just picked up a Mossberg M590A1 There you go.
There’s no reason not to have both. Absolutely, and the nice thing about that is the Mossberg and the Remington are basically the best examples of the 12 gauge pump in the world. You can compare and contrast them, put all kinds of crazy aftermarket parts on it and see what you like best.
And of course it doesn’t hurt to be familiar with the differences in the safeties on those shotguns, with the tang versus the crossbolt safety. That’s very true.
So, what else can we look forward to seeing in upcoming HAVA auctions? Coming up next we’re going to have an accessory package, it’s going to have some Crimson Trace lasers, and it’s going to have some other goodies for people’s various concealed carry needs. Then the very last week we’re going to have a very special item from DPMS that will also include more goodies from Crimson Trace and a really high quality scope from Leupold.
That sounds great. I might actually have to put in a bid on that myself. Well, thanks again for taking the time to talk to us, it’s a shame to see that you got eliminated. Do you think there’s any chance you might go back for season two? I would love to go back for season two, but not as a contestant. If I were to go back I’d want to go back as one of the experts.
It’s been great talking to you and we hope to talk to you again soon.
About our Guest Caleb makes his home with his wife in Indiana where he is a competitive shooter. Caleb is an active blogger as well as the host of Gun Nuts Radio.
Are you interested in becoming a Top Shot contestant? Now is your chance. The producers of Top Shot are holding an open casting call for individuals skilled with a pistol, rifle or any other firearm. If you’re interested in auditioning for the next Top Shot, email TopShotCasting@gmail.com with your name, city/state, phone number, a recent photo of yourself and a brief explanation of why you should be on the show. Deadline to apply is August 12, 2010. For more information, visit www.pilgrimfilms.tv and click on “CASTING” or call 818-478-4570 for more information.
Filed under: Media — Tags: Media — CTD Blogger @ 6:20 PM
In Wednesday’s episode of S.W.A.T. Magazine TV, Louis Awerbuck, director of Yavapai Firearms Academy talks about the importance of training on three-dimensional targets.
Cheaper Than Dirt! sponsored S.W.A.T. Magazine TV brings you an inside look at the training industry by taking you behind the scenes of law enforcement and military training, as well as looking at some the best training available in the private sector.
Be sure to watch this week’s episode Wednesday night at 8 PM on The Outdoor Channel.
Filed under: Media — Tags: Media — CTD Blogger @ 2:12 PM
S.W.A.T. Magazine TV, winner of a 2010 People’s Telly award, has been picked up for a second season, and the first new episode from season 2 premiers on June 30th on the Outdoor Channel during their Wednesday Night At The Range lineup. Season 2 is sponsored by Cheaper Than Dirt! along with, GunVault, Blackhawk!, LaserLyte, and Cross Breed Holsters. Cheaper Than Dirt! is proud to continue to be the primary sponsor, supporting the extensive instructional segments.
Rob Pincus commented on the upcoming shows in the second season: “In the first episode of the new season, John Chapman will be teaching officer rescue techniques to members of the Pinal County Regional S.W.A.T. Team and then he’ll apply the same concepts to the problem of needing to assist a family member who has been injured during an active shooter situation. A new theme for Season Two is the idea of “Always a Student,” a concept that I tried to exemplify last season by jumping in on many of the training blocks at the end of the show. Often, during these scenes, I would find an opportunity to learn or identify a failure point with our guest instructor. We received some great feedback on these true learning moments over the past six months. This time, we are going a step further by having our guests instructors take advantage of the opportunity to train with each other and show their dedication to remaining Always a Student. In fact, the first new Question of the Week segment will focus on this topic.”
The show format will remain largely unchanged. Topics covered in season 2 will include active shooter response, officer rescues, and using weapons one-handed. Guest instructors from some of the top training facilities in the United States include “Top Shot” star Mike Seeklander from the US Shooting Academy and “Super Dave” Harrington from Combat Speed.
S.W.A.T. Magazine TV brings you information latest gear and tactics, along with some of the top instructors and shooters in law enforcement and military training. Watch and learn how the tactics and gear that they use can apply to personal and home defense. Rob Pincus, host of S.W.A.T Magazine TV, is a professional trainer at the I.C.E Training Company as well as an author and consultant. He graduated from the Military College of Vermont after which he served as an officer in the US Army Reserve. Rob has worked as a law enforcement officer and executive protection agent and continues to work as a Training Officer at the San Miguel County Sheriff’s Office.
S.W.A.T Magazine has been providing relevant industry information for over 25 years. The new S.W.A.T. Magazine TV provides the same valuable information in easy to follow high definition video. S.W.A.T. Magazine TV airs at 8PM, 7PM Central on Wednesday evenings on The Outdoor Channel.